NAACP issues $850K bill for district voting

NAACP issues $850K bill for district voting

Group seeks legal fees, damages from Fayette County Commission, Board of Education

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is seeking more than $850,000 in attorneys fees and costs to be paid by Fayette County taxpayers following the group’s district voting victory in federal court.

According to the motion filed Thursday, the NAACP and other plaintiffs will file a “detailed specification and itemization” supporting that figure within 30 days.

The NAACP prevailed in the lawsuit, as U.S. District Judge Timothy C. Batten threw out the county’s at-large voting system and replaced it with the district voting format which will be used in this year’s primary and general elections.

Under district voting, registered voters will be limited to voting for just one of the five posts on both the county board of education and the county commission; they may only vote on the post corresponding with the geographic area they live in.

Previously, under at-large voting, each voter was able to cast ballots for all five seats on both governing bodies, which combined spend the lion’s share of tax dollars levied on taxpayers.

The NAACP argued that the district voting process was necessary to allow black residents of Fayette County to “elect the candidate of their choice.”

In addition to ordering the voting format switch, Batten also ordered a new district map that drew a specially-created 5th district. That district is key because it is now a “majority-minority” district which has a voting-age population where just over 50 percent are black voters.

The commission and the board of education are both appealing the case to the 11th District of the U.S. Court of Appeals. In a news release, the NAACP is pressuring the county commission and board of education to drop the lawsuit, contending that their costs, added on to the county’s early legal fees, presses the legal bill beyond $1.1 million.

“The ongoing appeal process will be just as costly and will push legal costs much higher unless Fayette County leaders are convinced by irate taxpayers to drop their appeal and accept the reality that enough taxpayer dollars have been lost opposing district voting,” the NAACP said.

John Jones, president of the Fayette County NAACP, revealed that his organization attempted to settle the lawsuit with the county commission, but commission members rejected it. A settlement was brokered at one point with the board of education, but the court set it aside after learning that the commission objected to it.

The settlements would have cost the county about $10,000 in fees, Jones said.

“Instead, our county, under the misguided leadership of our currently elected board members, is now in the position of having to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees to pay their attorneys and our attorneys because they have lost,” Jones said. “Any astute business person, spending her own money and given the reality that at-large voting operates to discriminate in Fayette County, would have settled years ago for only $10,000. It is this type of decision making and wasteful spending of our taxpayer dollars which underscores our call for a change in the method of electing our county leaders.”

Jones also called for voters to toss out incumbents in favor of new officials who would “promise to put aside their own personal interests in power, unlike our current leadership, for the sake of what’s best for all members of the county.”

“We pose this question to our current county leaders: when they lose their appeal, will board members individually pay the balance that is due or will we as taxpayers continue to bear the burden of their bad decision making?” Jones said.

30YearResident
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NO !!

The NAACP is a bigoted organization that should NOT receive reimbursement for legal fees for suing the county. Had we strong leadership in the county, this would not have happened in the first place.
NO to the bigoted NAACP !!

mudcat
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Funny you should bring that up - strong leadership, I mean

Got a choice coming up in PTC to elect a county commissioner from our district. We can elect the guy who won a libel lawsuit and paid his own legal bills or we can elect the guy who lost the very same lawsuit but somehow got the city to pay his legal bills or we can reelect the guy who was in charge of the county when the NAACP won it's lawsuit with the county and might very well be in charge when the county pays the NAACP $850,000.

Now then, who is best qualified? Do we want the traditional guy who handles things in a traditional way - sue the miscreant, pay your lawyer or the guy who is sneaky enough to lose and dodge his own lawyer's bill or the guy who presides over an $850,000 debacle - oddly the same dollar amount as another earlier debacle in PTC years ago known as the bridge to nowhere.

Yes siree, we've got choices.

moelarrycurly
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Paid his own legal bills

with what? The 12K of city money?

Handles things in a traditional way? What, decimating a public works department that we are now taking out loans to restaff and re-equip?

Went into a business with the city manager where the staff that they oversaw had to issue permits to them?

Let's just keep some perspective here.

Please do not read into my comments any endorsement here of anyone. I have recently packed up and moved to the new land of Oz, namely a district that has been newly created and is shared by those who live in the 5 plus acre world of the county who I have so much in common with, the farm belt. However, I still have to deal with the decisions of those who have say over this now fractured municipality.

mudcat
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Difficult choices for sure

I was just trying to keep the comparisons within the context of one lawsuit or the other, but sure enough when you add in other things it makes the choices less appealing. Impossible to elect our county rep without half the voters holding their nose.

But back to the lawsuit - Logsdon defended the lawsuit and was awarded some amount of money for legal bills from the other guy, fair and square. The fact that the other guy misdirected funds from the city is not Logsdon's fault. I do wish Logsdon had returned the settlement amount (everything but actual fees and expenses) to the city when he learned what the other guy was doing. Would have given the undisputed high ground.

moelarrycurly
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Yes, it would have

been, but he and his attorney knew it was a win win either way. They knew they would get the money from the city or the individual, either way. I do question the comment on misdirected funds from the city. If I remember correctly, there was no misdirecting of city funds. If you want to consider the moral, political decision, you can debate that. Legally, there was no misdirecting of city funds. The new council has changed that, tightened it up to require council approval of over a certain dollar amount, I believe. Is it too late for a write-in candidate campaign?

mudcat
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Again, just details. So, who do we want to represent us?

3 choices
L. The libeled former mayor who won a lawsuit but still thought flippin' houses with the former city manager was a good idea. Been shunned b the state.
H. The libelous former mayor who lost a libel suit and then $12,000 of city funds (aka taxpayer's dollars) converted to his own personal legal fees. Been censured for his immaturity. Been shunned by the state.
B. Liberal clown dressed up in sheep's clothing who is a hopeless egomaniac. May have cost us $850,000 - twice.Been shunned by the state.

Husband and Fat...
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Still too early

And this isn't my district thanks to the judge, but.

1. One recent former mayor is a long shot to gain 100 votes.

The other two both have positives and negatives. Does anyone know where Logdon stands on the district voting appeal?

That could be a big deal on Election Day.

conditon55
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Don't Tread on me

No taxation without representation.

Mike Mahoney
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Extortion ...

ex·tor·tion
noun \ik-ˈstȯr-shən\

: the crime of getting money from someone by the use of force or threats

Courtesy Miriam-Webster online dictionary.

The true "color" of this organization shining through ...

PTC Observer
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Mr. Mahoney - Extortion

It's not extortion, it's following the law. If you don't like the outcome, organize to repeal the law. Otherwise, under the law the NAACP has the legal basis and right to recover their expenses.

Now, with this small example you can see the use of law to take property by force. There are many such laws. However, It's the Law Mr. Mahoney and government has the obligation to enforce it. WE have the obligation by force of law to pay it.

The real question is when the American people will wake up and find out that they are actually working for the government, they are incrementally being enslaved and their property seized.

Did you read today that a 91 year old collector of various artifacts over his entire life had his property seized by the FBI for "cultural theft"? Now the government owns it and he has to prove that it's his and he collected it "legally". That's 8 decades of property taken. 8 years of his life. 8 years of his labor. How's a 91 year old man going to protect his property?

This goes on everyday.

Fred Garvin
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The right to vote

The NAACP has taken away our right to vote for the candidates of our choice. We, the citizens of Fayette County should sue the NAACP for taking away that right.

darrylwd
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Losers Pays... not so fast there

Loser pays only refers to those that file the suit in the first place, not the defendant. So ehhh wrong, this NOT a page from the GOP playbook... good grief.

moelarrycurly
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rwm-follow the money, honey

Gotta keep the machine moving...this is not a local cost, look who has to be paid for all the backup on this..nothing local here...nothing..they even have a specialty: Redistricting 101...just waited for the 2010 US Census to finish up and the games began. Jones is just tadpole in all of this, them DC folks is playing this game. Where else do you think this (ahem) money comes from? Certainly not the 22%'ers in Fayette County.

http://redrawingthelines.sitewrench.com/

Sorry this is in the wrong spot in the thread.

Gort
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What an amazing turn of

What an amazing turn of events, the current BOE was elected using the ‘at large voting’ system and it may cost Fayette taxpayers $850k for that privilege.

Now, tell me again why ‘at large voting’ is such a great way to run a county election process?

The $850k does look like a big number but having the loser pay the bill, for legal expenses and court cost, is straight from the Republican Tort Reform playbook, is it not?

Have no fear, I read a week or two ago, the BOE voted to appeal the judges ruling. I wonder if that was nothing more than saber rattling. If they are serious, the BOE could run up the bill to an even $1M. That will leave Fayette taxpayers with their teeth chattering, eh?

Yup, that’s what it come down to, saber rattling and teeth a chattering!

rolling stone
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It appears to me

that this motion may be for leverage to inspire the school board and county commissioners to drop their appeal of the district voting. I'm just sayin'.

OLDNCR
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Rolling Stone

I totally agree with you. This is leverage to keep Fayette County from fighting this racist decision.

fayette77
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NAAFC (National Association for the Advancement of Fayette Count

Who do I make the check out to?

No where in this circus has the advancement of the student been mentioned. How will this ruling improve the school system? There are so many other areas I'd like to see the NAACP get involved in Fayette County than forcing progressives into the BOE and commissioners chair.

OLDNCR
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NAAFC

I like it. I'm in. Just tell me where to send the check!!!

Davids mom
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Mr. Presberg's

contribution to the growth of the operation of our school district that benefits students, teachers, - all staff - and most important, parents - has been noted. Spending $800,000 to prevent a 'progressive' or 'black' to sit at the table sounds like the last gasp of Jim Crow. Just saying.

fayette77
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Far from Jim Crow

Please tell me where this exercise will benefit the education system of Fayette County. NAACP spent 850K to create a seat at the table for progressives when in due time this will happen with at-large voting based on the trends around us. NAACP could have spent that 850K in so many better ways within the County than this. How about backing a progressive (or black) candidate for an open seat rather than stacking the deck and buying the seat. My concern isn't Black, Asian, Hispanic or White candidates, but progressive, common-core, government-is-best politicians (and yes, they are on both sides of the aisle). Just more prominent on one side.
If someone likes segregation, move to Clayton, DeKalb etc where they model success with their districting. Folks move to Fayette County because the school system works and is successful. But now we're going to "fix" that.

Davids mom
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Fayette77

You may be correct. . . and there may be many that agree with you. However, as long as there are those
who openly state that they will use Districtwide voting to deny a citizen of color a seat at the table, under the law and the stated purpose of the NAACP, the practice will be challenged in the courts of these United States. This county has been fortunate that some of the 'mistakes' made by previous local boards did not harm the product of good parenting, good teachers, and adequate facilities. FC was not the only local board that suffered the consequences of the nationwide economy downturn. The current BOE appears to be making adjustments so that our educational offerings are not too negatively affected. The Republican Party has the legal right to gerrymander based on obtaining political power, as the Democrats. However, actions over the past 100+ years in Fayette County made the practice of Districtwide voting appear to be used to deny a growing population of persons of color a voice in government. The NAACP stepped in. To make this an issue of political/ideology rather than 'race' might be wise, as one contributor suggested. . but wisdom and politics do not always go hand in hand,

Quote:

when in due time this will happen with at-large voting based on the trends around us.

I'm afraid this generation will not go for the 'in due time' in order to be treated as citizens of this country under the law. When something appears like returning to Jim Crow, it will be challenged in the courts. The NAACP is the legal challenger. It is a national concern. , , and not only blacks and/or Democrats are concerned. Power is difficult to share if one has no respect for the neighbor who has a right to share. Our leaders in Congress have shown how this attitude is destructive. Hopefully, the citizens of Fayette County can 'share' for the benefit of all.

fayette77
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Defining the trend

The trend around us does include the diversity of color and ethnicity as our County changes. But, the trend I was focusing on is the progressive, government-knows-best mentality taking over society. I feel this is a move by the NAACP that is more about politics, than race.
If it was about race equality, then we should further segregate the county so other races/nationalities have their voices heard.

BTW, I prefer to keep my progressiveness in dinners and rock music.

Davids mom
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Sounds like Jim Crow to many
Quote:

If it was about race equality, then we should further segregate the county so other races/nationalities have their voices heard.

Separate but equal was never a reality in this country. Those who suffered under this policy are well aware of the statements that 'sound' like a return to that thinking - and it is NOT CONSERVATIVE THINKING - but racist.

PTC Observer
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DM - And

what is the 5th district? Is it racist? Is it political? Is it both?

Is it separate but equal?

What is it DM?

As you know I believe in small compact voting districts based on population and nothing else.

You figure it out.

Davids mom
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PTCO - District 5
Quote:

As you know I believe in small compact voting districts based on population and nothing else.

I think using the high school attendance areas would have achieved what the NAACP desired - but I don't have any statistics. District 5 is an attempt at adhering to the Voting Rights Act. The population may change in District 5 just as it may in the other Districts in the county. There was talk of displacing Presberg - because he was 'appointed'. His seat is now protected. This fight to repeal the decision based on the Voting Rights Act - is validating that there is still a taint of racism in FC. I think the Republican Party doesn't have to do much gerrymandering to get the power they need to insure a Republican candidate representing the majority of FC.

Robert W. Morgan
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That $850k is a phony number. They didn't spend 1/3 of that

That is either the work of an extremely dishonest lawyer (or maybe one working on a contingency basis, trolling for a big payday) or they have padded that number with punitive damages. My guess is the latter - probably in the amount of $500,000. Not sure why they think punitive damages are appropriate here, but I guess they will let us know.

I don't think they can actually "fix" Fayette County for a very long time. It is going to take much more in-migration, probably over 20 years. One little progressive from District 5 who isn't even black won't matter.

PTC Observer
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DM - Growth?

Growth of the operation of our schools? What exactly did Mr. Presberg do to increase the operation of our schools?

How did the at large voting "prevent" a progressive to sit at the table?

Does district voting "prevent" a conservative from sitting at the table for a specific district?

If the answer is no, then how can the first assertion be true?

This is not rhetorical.

Let's face it DM, the new district is political, not racial. Race is merely the excuse and the Voting Rights Act is the tool for political gain.

Davids mom
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Growth

Is not always measured numerically: growth in academic achievement; in attracting outstanding educators; in maintaining outstanding parent involvement, etc., etc., etc. - AND in analyzing the budget for better use in student advancement. The new District is being formed because of the use of 'race' as a legal political tool. IMO

Quote:

What exactly did Mr. Presberg do to increase the operation of our schools?

Except for this 'lawsuit' thing - he worked cooperatively with the board members and the superintendent and staff for the continued GROWTH of FC School District!

PTC Observer
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Growth DM

By definition is a metric, meaning it is measurable.

You didn't answer the question because there are no measurable results.

Robert W. Morgan
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Students? They don't need no freaking students

They have the teacher's union that some on here deny the existence of.

Students come and go and they have no voice in any of this. We are supposed to look out for them as parents. The NAACP is not concerned about the kids, they only want black adults to vote for a black candidate so they can say that they got a black representative elected so they can scam some other blacks out of money to get more blacks elected. Sorry if that offends, but I have a YouTube of that conversation and as soon as I can figure out how to post it - I will.

NAAFC sounds like a worthy organization. Maybe Col. Ross will shift focus (ha,ha, get the pun?) from his Vision group to the NAAFC. He's influential, intelligent and involved. 3 "I's". And he is white. Not that I should care about that, but Mr. Jones and his flunkies are stupid as can be - regardless of color. Lead us back into at-large voting, Col. Ross.

Davids mom
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Thanks for your input Morgan

The NAACP is not concerned about the kids, they only want black adults to vote for a black candidate so they can say that they got a black representative elected so they can scam some other blacks out of money to get more blacks elected. Sorry if that offends

As long as statements like this are made, money will poor into the coffers of the NAACP to counteract such ignorance in our country that boasts of 'liberty and justice for all'. The 21% citizens in Fayette County of color also are taxpayers. We're losing 4 teachers; we have an inordinate number of potholes, and so many other valid uses of taxpayer money than this law suit. Not liking 'blacks' at the governing table is not reason enough to be in this situation for any Republican community in 2014.

But thanks for your input.

edsmith
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legalized theft

So, they're effectively going to sue ME, the taxpayer? Yup, that's going to go a LONG way to eradicate racism. This organization has long ago outlived it's usefulness, and is now only out to advance someone's bank account. Time to eliminate it.

Robert W. Morgan
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You want us to pay for YOUR legal fees, Mr. Jones?

Wow, talk about an entitlement mentality! You disrupt our right to vote on all 5 commissioners and now you want us (the taxpayers who are voters and non-voters) to pay your legal bills? Absurd. I'm all for a loser pays system when somebody pushes a frivolous lawsuit on someone and the case is dismissed as obviously frivolous, but this is not that.

This should remove any doubts anyone in the county ever had about appealing this thing. You need to be stopped and put out of business. Maybe a long expensive appeal will do exactly that. If nothing else the appeals court will take into account your highly padded and possibly fraudulent legal bill. Love to see those itemized expenses and meetings and how someone very creative got them to total $850,000. I pity the poor citizens you dragged into this thing. They have several expensive years ahead of them - or embarrassment when they back down and join the other side or write a book about how you enticed them to front for you.

And your pathetic attempt to drive a wedge between our county commission and the taxpayers is just that - pathetic. They may not be perfect and a couple probably won't get reelected, but they and certainly their replacements speak for most of us in opposing your racist lawsuit.

PTC Observer
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You've seen nothing

yet RWM, wait until the county loses the appeal. Now that will be a legal bill!

Davids mom
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FREEDOM-OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM

We are seeing freedom to appeal an unjust ruling in action. This will be an interesting exercise in our judicial system to observe.

1. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (“the NAACP”) is a national, multiracial, not-for-profit organization founded in February 1909 and incorporated in 1911. The NAACP was organized to eliminate social injustices, including racial discrimination, by assisting in legal cases and initiating legal action to enforce the principles of law.

The NAACP FINANCIAL STATEMENT
http://naacp.3cdn.net/b2fc34d84b0d25ac56_bsm6ibelw.pdf

The taxpayers in Fayette County certainly have the right to appeal the decision favorable to the NAACP. The taxpayers do have the right to know on what principle the attorneys for the county feel they are 'right' in order to win the appeal.

David defeated Goliath - but he had an omnipotent supporter.

PTC Observer
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DM - Not

Not so interesting but expensive indeed. The fact is that if the county wants to "win", they must first repeal the Voting Rights Act in its entirety.

Somehow, I think that's just a little beyond their financial capability.

The issue is not a legal one but an issue of how do the races simply get along without government entitlement. Instead of being defined by entitled groups, we could simply opt to be defined as free Americans. That concept, unfortunately, seems just as unattainable as the repeal of the Voting Rights Act. Do you think they may be connected DM?

Davids mom
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PTCO
Quote:

Do you think they may be connected DM?

Only as an illustration of the sad fact that humans have difficulty 'doing unto others as they want others to do unto them' Those citizens in our country and in our county who have found that they they can follow this principle and still have different ideologies/strategies on how to solve problems are role models to the younger generation. To repeal an act that gives all citizens the right to vote seems 'un-American'.

PTC Observer
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DM - It

was a rhetorical question.

Laws are never repealed once in place. Politicians have no spines to repeal laws because they are always passed to garner votes and money from special interests.

We can argue all day about the purpose of law DM, we will never agree.

Davids mom
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PTCO- Really?
Quote:

Laws are never repealed once in place

Check this out. Repealed laws - state and federal/acts of Congress

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:United_States_repealed_legislation

Among them, the so-called Jim Crow laws.

PTC Observer
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Oh my DM

So many!

LOL

I guess there must have been a larger counter special interest group to get these repealed. As I said politicians don't repeal anything. They only serve their own interests.

Davids mom
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PTCO - this is what you said.

Laws are never repealed once in place

Maybe we need to elect LEADERS' rather than politicians. It's a waste of time and effort to pass laws that can't pass the mustard of following our Constitution.

PTC Observer
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That is what I said

you're correct, it was an absolute statement, which of course is not correct. However, for every "repealed" law another takes its place and sometimes more than one law takes its place.

My point is that law is force, and the force of law can be misused. It is misused on a daily basis. Gerrymandering districts on the basis of political ends, is a misuse of the law. It is not about race DM, it is about political philosophy. Entitlement, is a disease that destroys nations by the enslavement of people to a social statist ideal that is unattainable. It pits citizens against citizens and is a cancer eating at the very heart of our country.

The problem isn't with "leaders" the problem is with the corruption of power by the political intellectual elite.

mudcat
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Nice financial statement DM

Sure looks like the NAACP can afford to pay its own legal fees.

Surely you are not suggesting with your David and Goliath metaphor that God is going to be rooting for the NAACP? Are you? 'Cause that's just plain silly.

brewster
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not too silly Mudcat

The Almighty does use the foolish things to confound the wise.

Robert W. Morgan
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No doubt, but don't forget, there are 100,000 of us

people in the county, that is. $20 or even $30 for everyone in my household to fight this thing - a no-brainer. Win or lose. That Jones guy has really annoyed me and I hope others - especially the commissioners feel the same way.

G35 Dude
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RWM-I'll pay too!!
Quote:

$20 or even $30 for everyone in my household to fight this thing - a no-brainer. Win or lose. That Jones guy has really annoyed me and I hope others - especially the commissioners feel the same way.

I'm annoyed enough to pay double those amounts. Or more. According to the NAACP's numbers their total assets are just under 14 million. Divide that by 100,000 and you have $140 for each citizen of Fayette. So lets start a NAAFC (National Association for the Advancement of Fayette County) to battle and to take them down. I'll donate the first $140.

Earl E Bird
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Count me in.

I'll give $140 also. If we don't stand up now it'll be too late later. I just hope it isn't already too late.

Spyglass
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I'll contribute

One way or another we all will. I am certainly for appealing it, although I don't see much chance of winning. Maybe others will more legal schooling in the area can shed some light on this.

I think what goes against us is that our way was not the norm...I and many others liked it, but I don't think that matters.

G35 Dude
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Spy-Normal

Our way was not the norm. But was one of the most successful in terms of educating our kids. Now there are some that would have us revert back to "normal". Forget the kids.

suggarfoot
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speaking of the kids

If only the NAACP would use some of that money and interest, to help the black kids...what a difference they COULD make. My child was talking last night about a friend of his. It seems that one of those bastions of hateful white colleges in another state gave scholarship to a black friend of his. The child was so poor he has rode the buss back and forth from Florida to Alabama for years, never able to go home except for the bus, and very rarely at that. Now the kid has graduated and is too poor to buy a car. He can't get a job because he has no way back and forth to work and lives in a very poor area with his family.

Where is the NAACP to help someone like that. So far, it has just been those nasty whites.

I asked my child if his black friend had ever asked the NAACP for money for a car and his answer was "don't be ridiculous Mom, you know they don't do that, they just do high profile things that get their name in the paper, nothing worthwhile."

And there you have it. If they would do the worthwhile things, like helping a poor black child, that has already proven himself get a car, wouldn't that kind of be a better thing than wasting money to sue Fayette county? But like my kid says, that wouldn't be high profile and get their names in the newspapers. The black kid doesn't think too much of them either.

Davids mom
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PLEASE SHARE WITH YOUR FRIENDS

Your child is hardly an expert on the activities of the NAACP- nationally. Mayabe your child can assist his 'black' friend by giving him accurate information. There are many partners of the NAACP who have funds available to help students in the predicament of your child's friend. By the way - in todays economic situation, there are citizens of all races with PH. D'S who are in need of help. Why I bet there are members of your church who would help your child's friend.

Mission of NAACP

http://www.naacp.org/pages/our-mission

Mission of ACT-SO

http://www.naacpconnect.org/pages/act-so-mission

There are many organizations in our country that are providing assistance to deserving citizens. There are many grants available to citizens of all genders, races, religions, etc. My heart goes out to this young black citizen if you and your child are his only source of information. This young person sounds like he is quite resourceful. Introduce him to google; members of your church; black leaders here in FC. Thanks for sharing this information. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Suggarfoot - hate is a waste of time. I'm sure his family is grateful for the opportunity their child has been given. Whites and blacks from poor homes have had to endure hardships in order to receive a college education. In this era, a college education is not the open sesame to a good job and forever happiness. But it is a gift that does keep on giving in wisdom and the quest for knowledge.

Earl E Bird
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From the mouths of babes
Quote:

"don't be ridiculous Mom, you know they don't do that, they just do high profile things that get their name in the paper, nothing worthwhile."

Wow! That about covers it.

Spyglass
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Oh I agree

No doubt...

Robert W. Morgan
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"Not the norm". You may be right, spyguy

That's what everybody seems to be pushing for - the norm or as we like to say the new normal. The new normal is where only 1/2 the people pay taxes, but everybody votes, illegal aliens are no longer illegal they are automatically citizens - this from our Secretary of State or VP - interchangeable boobs.

The new norm is no one can succeed or accumulate wealth or even a retirement account unless you give the government back a half or a third so they can redistribute. And we can't have a voting system we like because it is "not normal". Normal according to the NAACP is manipulating the system so it forces black representation - like it or not, want it or not.

I guess the next thing to attack is the high SAT scores at McIntosh because that's "not normal" - gotta make them lower somehow so we line up with the "normal kids" in adjacent counties. Wouldn't want to make the dumber kids feel bad, would we. That would be like keeping score or something. Hey, I know what to do. Let's bus kids from the low scoring schools to the high scoring schools and send some of the high scoring kids back to the low scoring schools. That should do it. It will all average out the, won't it? Wonder why no one has ever tried that.

I am so sick of this crap where people at the top or the front of the line get dragged down just because its fair. Says who?? Our President, Congress, the Supreme Court???? Oh yea, they do. I forgot. Never mind.

The only good in all this is that I am very thankful my parents and in-laws - all 4 very much participating members of the Greatest Generation are not alive to witness the destruction of what they worked so hard to build up. They are probably going to hold me and other baby boomers accountable - and maybe we should be.

Davids mom
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There it is!!
Quote:

Normal according to the NAACP is manipulating the system so it forces black representation - like it or not, want it or not.

Liking or not liking 'black' representation is not implementing the law of the US. We are a country of 'law' - and the law applies to all citizens regardless of their gender, religion, skin-color. I'm sure the attorneys for the county will make their additional appeal based on 'law' - not likes or dislikes. This situation is the basis for a fantastic civics lesson!

Robert W. Morgan
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Sure is a good civics lesson, Mom

The lesson is that 120 years of perfectly legal at-large voting has produced some dedicated public servants and some boorish clowns, even some potheads, but sadly they were all white or hispanic or oriental. Some blacks have run, but did not win.

So, by using an obviously racist organization, a few clueless citizens and an ethically-challenged attorney, they convince an activist judge to overturn a 120 year voting pattern which could never be done legally - by county commission vote and state legislature approval. Then the judge draws a map that specifically seeks out only black voters to ensure a black candidate gets elected. Oh yea, and then they asked to ban all incumbents because they might be white or something. Fortunately that smelled so bad even the bow-tied judge had to say no.

And that's your great civics lesson - you don't like the law, but you can't change it legally, using the systems that are in place, just go over everyone's head and ram something through that the majority doesn't approve of. Is that what you want to teach your kids and grandkids? Who do you think you are - Obama?

A better civics lesson is appealing this thing and paying attention to what the judges that overturn it (or not) actually say. Judge Batten is not going down in history as someone great or even competent, so let's learn from the unbiased grownup judges farther up the food chain.

Davids mom
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Civics - another point of view

Voting Rights Act: The law of the land - upheld by the Supreme Court. The duty of the NAACP - to use legal recourse to insure that the law of the land is upheld. What a shame that in 2014, we still feel the need to go to court to overcome the not so subtle strategies of those who find the legal strategies of gerrymandering, etc. do not satisfy their desire to limit the voting power of some members of a community. Legal ID, proof of citizenship , interesting locations of voting locations - did not suppress the vote in 2012. If you have an organization that is willing to fund this issue for you - get them to fund it. This action is not fair to the taxpayers of Fayette County or the children of the future.

Note: It's not the women in FC who are emotional over this issue. Interesting. Let's move on. What will be will be.

Unblinded
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What happens.....

Has anybody raised the question of "What happens if this 'special' minority-majority district reverts back to minority-minority? Then what? Do we make a "special" 6th district? Do we just shift district lines around every election cycle to have this "special" district standard met?

Spyglass
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I thought it was understood that Blacks

would only move into the 5th district in the future....or do they not like being grouped together...obviously the Naacp has no problems grouping them together...what say our Black residents?

Davids mom
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From one black resident

Look around you. All 21% of the minority residents of FC do not live in the District 5 area. In today's America, we can live wherever our finances allow - and we do. It's my understanding that 'blacks' have been living in FC for generations. The action approved by the courts says nothing about where blacks shall live. Evidently the residents of District 5 are happy with Mr. Presbergs work on the BOE, and have indicated that they will keep him on the BOE. There are others in the community who will not be able to vote for Mr. Presberg - but also support the work that he has done in working cooperatively with the existing board for the children in the Fayette County School District.

Spyglass
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You don't get it..

Sarcasm is not your strong point..although I think my point is somewhat valid...are you not being herded by the Naacp? Obviously they do not think your vote counts enough on the County wide level....you don't see that?

You love threads like this..you glom onto them like your life depends on it.

Have a good day.

Davids mom
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Spy

What is your point? Expressing another point of view in this discussion - and learning from others has been an enlightening experience for the past 9 years for me! I entered this discussion stating that I was interested in 'race relations'. I came to Fayetteville, GA with an indoctrinated fear of white males and the south in general. I am very grateful to those African Americans who remained in the south and fought for Civil Rights for all citizens. I am very grateful to my neighbors and new friends who have taught me that the 'south' has made a change - and it is foolish to fear ALL of any gender or race. I am proud of my husbands family who worked with Georgians of all races to make it possible for my family to live in a small town in Fayette County in peace and harmony. No one 'herds' black people today Spy. Your words and attitude remind me that not ALL white males or white citizens have changed from the days of the past. I don't fear today - because your attitude is dying out.

Spyglass
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You confirmed it

You can't even take a joke....carry on.

Davids mom
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minority-minority?

Maybe by then, this unique county - which in reality is a living role model of the new south - except for this Voting Rights thing for over 50 years - will be recognized for its ability to live the 'DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU' principle. Almost all new developments in Fayette County have been integrated for the past ten years and longer. Large and small churches in our county reach out to all.

I was raised in the west - and white flight was prevalent during my youth. This left the prime areas of the city in the hands of minorities. (Those whose population was less than the majority of residents of the city) Today, all 'races' are interested in residing in the area where I was raised - homes have been maintained over the years - and are selling for well over one million dollars. Homes in Fayette County have not been turned into Section 8 rentals; the unemployed in FC are almost equal in race. As a taxpayer in this county for over 10 years, I want to know how the expenditure of these funds for an appeal will help secure the jobs of 4 teachers, include parapros in first grade classrooms, improve the graduation rate of the county high schools, etc., etc., etc. I thank Ms. Leonard's sharing of the reality of the situation in Fayette County.

RKS
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Fay County NAACP

I'd like to put a little reality into this thread about what this "unique" county has become:

1. Crime ridden
2. Mom and Pop businesses closing up due to all the big box stores taking over
3. Losing it's small town feel due to the mall and chain stores
4. Did I mention crime ridden?

If this town is a living role model, then I hope no one is paying attention. So many things done wrong in the name of "progress".

My neighborhood isn't section 8 yet, but the value is so diminished, everyone is upside down. It isn't a safe place to be after dark and the kind of people living here now don't take good care of their homes and yards like they used to. So, sorry, I am not buying your "living role model" speech. I have lived it for 25+ years here....it's sad what has happened.

Davids mom
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Are you talking about Fayetteville?

Come take a ride down Glenn. Note the activity in the small shopping centers that are newly built or renovated. Note the new businesses that are opening up to meet the needs of the new housing developments that are being built AND SOLD. I came to Fayetteville in 2004 - and wondered if we had made the right decision in moving here. We have been most pleased with the vision of the leaders at that time - and the renovation of the Court House area - which still gives our city a 'small town feel'. I don't know where you live - but everyone's value has diminished. Many of our young neighbors lost their homes - but new neighbors are moving in with their young children - and bringing joy to us 'retirees'. I'm sorry that your neighbors have not maintained their homes. . . .but this is happening all over the country - and is not happening where I live. I hesitated in getting involved with a development's Homeowner Organization - but we have been pleased with the leadership of the organization and the adherence to maintenance regulations. I have lived here for over 10 years now - and I'm very pleased. Those like you who are experiencing your reality - no one will deny it - but I feel the majority of citizens in Fayetteville do not feel this way and are welcoming their new neighbors. Fayetteville is a role model.

Crime: In this economy, crime has escalated. We are part of an active Neighborhood Watch program. The cooperation of our Mayor's office and the Chief of Police has made the Fayette Pavilion area feel safe again. The opening of outstanding restaurants in that part of town (Longhorn and Olive Garden - as well as Panera Bread) has shown that the community does support the business area near the Pavilion. Our unique county is growing. Sorry to hear that some neighborhoods are not growing with it.

RKS
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DM Restaurants

The arrival of The Olive Garden (a franchise), pushed out a long standing Italian restaurant. The arrival of Longhorn pushed out a long standing steakhouse in this town. How about the closing of the only service attendant gas station, had been here since time began? I would suggest you drive past the crime ridden Pavilion up GA 85 and up GA 314 and see what has happened to the northern part of Fayetteville. Then drive back down to Banks Station and take a look at the once lovely neighborhood behind that disaster of a shopping center...mostly vacant shops, filthy movie theater. Then, head back up 85 and turn down Corinth Road and see that subdivision and what it has become.

If you think going to the Pavillion is safe again, go right ahead...me, I continue to avoid it. Let's see what happens now that it is getting warmer again and the thugs return from their hibernation.

You have been here a mere 9-10 years, you don't know what this place used to be...small town feel, mom and pop businesses and a place where we never worried about thuggery.

AtHomeGym
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RKS & ItalianRestaurant

Kindly name the restaurant that Olive Garden "Pushed out". I"ve lived here since 1986 and dammned if I can name it! And pls don't say Johnny Carino's! Oh,and what was the steak place that Longhorn"pushed out"?

Spyglass
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LongBranch?...and what used to be behind McDonalds

just north of downtown..had a moose or something of the like out front. Had good steaks...

TinCan
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Longbranch

Maybe a bit more recent than 30 years. Been here 26 years and used to go there. Don't forget the Chicken Man.
The moose was at Bugaboo Creek.

AtHomeGym
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Spyglass & steakhouse

No that was Bugaboo Creek--not Longbranch.

Spyglass
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No, much longer ago, like 30 years ago

May have been one of the first places to sell beer/wine...on the same road as the nice outdoor furniture store..Kathi Ave. maybe?

AtHomeGym
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Spyglass & Restaurant

Sorry,you lost me.

AtHomeGym
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RKS & ItalianRestaurant

KindlynametherestaurantthatOlive Garden "Pushed out". I"ve loved here since 1986 anddammned if I can name it! And pls don't say Johnny Carino's!

stranger than f...
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Local Italian Restaurant was Baci

I think the restaurant he references was Baci. It was located behind Arby's for several years, and then moved to Banks Station. It closed about the time that Olive Garden opened.

borntorun
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Mama Lucia's

Its in Coweta County but the best Italian restaurant in the area is Mama Lucia's over in Ashley Park in Newnan....no contest.

Gort
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For years we went to

For years we went to Corelli’s (sp?) in PTC, then we started going to Hogan’s Hero’s in Hogansville, (they were at their best when they were in the old building. Gone now.)

We tried Baci’s at the recommendation of a friend but we must have gone on a bad night. The service was terrible, the food bland, poorly presented, and we never went back.

Mama Lucia’s is a great place to eat, they used to be at Thomas Crossroads before moving to Ashley Park.

NUK_1
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Southside Italian food

Hogan's Heroes was incredible. Too bad the owner decided that it was also a good place to cook a bunch of crystal meth after-hours. Food was awesome. Corelli's in PTC(at a couple of different locations) was really good but they didn't seem to like paying taxes and that can cause problems. When they came back and opened in Tyrone a year and half ago or so ago, still good, but they are closed again now too.

I thought Baci's was simply not good. Went there a few times and service absolutely sucked and the food was rather blah. Same with Saza's(now closed) in Newnan.

Best Italian I have had recently is Venucci's in LaGrange. The owner was trained by the owner of Hogan's Heroes years ago before he had to do a dime in the big house for selling loads of meth and Hogan's Heroes became no more.

borntorun
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Hogan's Heroes

I never ate there but had forgotten about cooking the crystal meth story. What was the joint in the Braelinn Village Shopping Center that up and moved to Newnan and then closed. Seems like a couple of brothers owned it. Was that Corelli's?

moelarrycurly
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btr crack coke meth

Hogans Heroes was the most popular restaurant on the south side for just one reason, and it had nothing to do with the food. I never knew about it till years later, and only found out by doing a google search when someone who used to live here asked me if it was still open. Then I knew why they wanted to know. That, and the thousands of dollars of dental work they have had since they lived here. Another not so secret PTC secret of the golden days here.

Yes, it was Corelli's...Mama Gina

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=116495612

This thread is toast...

NUK_1
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MLC: No

The owner Jeff Spader didn't start cooking meth for years after the place was once a converted gas station and then later moved to a different building in Hogansville. Try to know what the hell you are talking about and it's well known by law enforcement that no meth was in the food and it was an after-hours thing on Mondays with his 20-something mistress/waitress. Yeah, he really screwed up, no doubt, but you're talking out of your backside as usual about something you have zero knowledge about.

Davids mom
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RKS

Take that ride again - and open your eyes.

RKS
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DM-Ride
Davids mom wrote:

Take that ride again - and open your eyes.

Why don't you take that ride, stop by my house for lunch and I will give you a tour of my neighborhood so you can see the life me, my family and my neighbors have now. I really don't appreciate your sarcasm. I live in what used to be a really lovely part of Fayetteville. So, you just stay South of HY 54 and keep your blinders on, that's ok.

Davids mom
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RKS

I have visited friends in 'your' neighborhood. Are you part of the Neighborhood organization that works cooperatively with neighbors, or are you a whiner about how things used to be (white)? The homes on my friends street are well cared for. I'm sure your home is well cared for also. It's not surprising when neighbors work together what can be accomplished. Sometimes the view is in the heart of the beholder. I'm not being sarcastic, and I'm in your neighborhood quite a lot. If you notice, there has been renovations, yard clean ups, etc. Yes, I also notice there is still work to be done, in my 'south' neighborhood also. In this economy, some had to cut gardeners from the budget, health issues have hindered the desires of some residents in keeping their property presentable. Sometime individuals offering a helping hand is appreciated, sometimes not. A neighborhood where people are working together is 'viewed' by the passerby. How is your neighborhood viewed by the passerby?

Fred Garvin
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See RKS?

It's YOUR fault that the neighborhood that was once beautiful and crime free has turned into a cesspool.

Davids mom
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RKS I was here in 1981

If it was like it was then - I would never have moved here with my family. That, I guess, is what you want.

RKS
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DM
Davids mom wrote:

If it was like it was then - I would never have moved here with my family. That, I guess, is what you want.

I don't know what you mean by that comment, please clarify...."back then" that I am referring to was a family friendly town, mom and pop businesses, people who knew eachother, and most importantly was pretty much free of crime. It was a place where we felt safe to go outside and take a walk and shop and frequent shops and restaurants that were locally owned and operated. We were free of big box stores and chain restaurants that destroy locally owned businesses. We were proud homeowners who took care of what we had. I don't find neighborhoods that look like dumps with poorly maintained homes the least bit appealing. I don't find thuggery the least bit appealing.

If you are insinuating something else to me, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Davids mom
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In 1981-not insinuating anything

My family could not stop at the few restaurants that a passerby would see from the road; in 1981, my children may have had to attend a segregated school. Maybe not. Our relatives advised my father not to stop in Fayette County unless it was with friends or relatives. My son was at Morehouse, and was advised not to stop in Fayette County. There were 'black' families in FC. . . and according to them, they knew their place according to the established traditions of Fayette County. There are many families Iiving in FC today, cooperating with their neighbors, and maintaining neighborhoods that exhibit pride in ownership. There are neighborhoods and single dwellings that do not exhibit 'pride' of ownership in Fayette County. There are organizations in FC who try to provide assistance to those whose homes are not being cared for. The lack of monitoring of Section 8 housing is a concern of many in this country, not just FC. Crime has escalated in all communities since 1981. Neighbors who work with one another as well as law enforcement are trying their best to combat the thug culture.
I don't need you to give me a tour. As a resident, you need to address your concern with your neighbors. It's not 1981, thank heavens it's 2014 - and concerned citizens can accomplish a lot with cooperation.

I have worked with the law enforcement in my community and the Mayors office in Fayetteville. I feel much safer than I did last year, I walk the streets of my community using the precautionary measures suggested by law enforcement. It's not 1981 anywhere on this globe. I hope you find the peace and harmony that you're looking for. The search begins with you.

RKS
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DM
Davids mom wrote:

I don't need you to give me a tour. As a resident, you need to address your concern with your neighbors. It's not 1981, thank heavens it's 2014 - and concerned citizens can accomplish a lot with cooperation.

I have worked with the law enforcement in my community and the Mayors office in Fayetteville. I feel much safer than I did last year, I walk the streets of my community using the precautionary measures suggested by law enforcement. It's not 1981 anywhere on this globe. I hope you find the peace and harmony that you're looking for. The search begins with you.

What makes you think my neighbors and myself have not done any of that? You are so quick to make assumptions.....

Davids mom
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RKS

I'm sincerely sorry you and your neighbors have not experienced any success,

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