Come to TSPLOST debate for both sides
Tuesday, May 29, 2012 - 5:01pm
Submitted by Letters to the ...
Submitted by Letters to the ...
I was excommunicated from the “Atlanta Students for Progressive Transit” Facebook page two weeks ago.
At first I thought the administrator had simply blocked me from any further postings, but then discovered that every one of my prior posts had also been eradicated from the site, like a cyber age book burning.
I’d frequented the page for about a month to see what some of tomorrow’s leaders thought about the $7.2 billion in new taxes that proponents are asking us to spend on road, bus, and train projects. I have a number of serious concerns about the tax, and thought social media would be a great way to connect for some meaningful discussion. I got my answer: “We’ve made up our minds, so don’t confuse us with the facts.”
A bunch of radicals? Probably not — clicking the names of other posters takes you to their personal Facebook page, and many are attending our state’s best universities.
I chalk up their naive perspective to fleeting youth and not having faced years and years of life’s challenges (at least I hope their blind following isn’t permanent!).
As their Facebook title suggests, these students zealously support deeply subsidized, under-serving, government-operated buses and trains that account for over half the project tax money you’re being asked to approve on a July 31 ballot.
What’s equally alarming, though, is their lack of critical thinking on the issue, and sticking their heads in the sand to avoid facts and different opinions. They launched keyboard assaults armed only with a strong dose of emotion (“I need MARTA to get to GSU, so government’s got to provide it!”).
If you’ve listened to the radio or checked your mailbox, you’ll know they fit right in with the $8 million public relations campaign to convince us to impose the 10-year tax on ourselves.
That tax will buy, among other projects, $931 million to fix old MARTA elevators, signs, lights, etc, and a $689 million project for buses (or streetcars; authorities will figure out which after the vote) that proponents estimate will carry only 9,250 riders. That’s about $75,000 per rider).
This is a significant issue and the $8 million crowd isn’t telling you the full story. They, on the other hand, will say I’m short-sighted and don’t see all the opportunities.
Why don’t you decide?
Commissioner Steve Brown and I shall debate the issues with the Metro Atlanta Chamber’s VP for Transportation, and a speaker selected by the Metro Atlanta Voter Education Network on Tuesday, June 5 at 6:30 p.m. at the Harvest Christian Community Center, 383 North Glynn (Ga. Highway 85) in Fayetteville.
Admission is free and the moderator will take questions from the audience (that’s you — ask away!).
Bob Ross
Peachtree City, Ga.
Sun, 06/03/2012 - 10:40am
#2
I hear you, Ginga...
and I'm not convinced the solution is this alone, but I still think that there is a self fulfilling prophecy - if you don't have the infrastructure in place, when someone comes to look to move to an area, they'll gravitate to an area where the infrastructure is.
I know that the school system's "build it and they will come" strategy hasn't panned out yet, but there is a adapted plan to use Rivers to cycle out some of the older schools. When the economy does come back (and it will have to at some point), do we want to be ready for it, or do we need to only play catchup when we're ready?
We're told personally to keep our retirements and keep planning to invest in our futures, even though it might be better in the short term to cash out and secure today. The problem is we're in competition with every other local area...if we don't invest for tomorrow, today won't last past today.
Yes, it may be dancing with the unknown, but we do that every day - we don't know when affliction will strike us personally, when a car will pull out in front of us when we're driving, when a fire may destroy our house, other tragedy may strike. Safety and risk must go together on our journey of life...that's "insurance" we pay to have on hand to help us...building and maintaining our infrastructure is also "insurance" that our property values will hold up well comparably and continue to make our area attractive for folks to live in to keep the cycle of life moving (I don't mean growth, either, I mean maintaining and improving for our population today). But growth will come to us too, so how do we plan for that? We won't stop it, and I don't believe we should stop it; we should try to anticipate it and build for it.
That's what a lot of the TSPLOST dollars are doing - helping our region plan to move forward.
I'm willing to take a risk, even though it may turn out bad. Life is about trying, not about sitting still.
$4 to $6 a month is what we're quibbling about here. How much do you spend a month on things that have sales taxes, on average?
Sat, 06/02/2012 - 9:05pm
#3
Let's debate here - the audience is bigger.
I'm going to take a few points you have brought up in this invitation and comment on them. I'd love to use this as an opportunity to have a virtual debate online, where we can provide additional facts and reports to help potential voters in the area make up their minds.
I'm a citizen - I have no vested interests in this matter other than that of one as a commuter to Atlanta and resident of Fayette County. I do not take MARTA or other transit at this time, nor do I take the interstate to access Atlanta on a daily basis.
Ready? OK!
Your assertion:
That tax will buy, among other projects, $931 million to fix old MARTA elevators, signs, lights, etc, and a $689 million project for buses (or streetcars; authorities will figure out which after the vote) that proponents estimate will carry only 9,250 riders. That’s about $75,000 per rider).
My response:
Well, that's just a small part of it. If you look at the estimates that the ARC provides for overall daily boardings of transit (which includes those buses/streetcars and the MARTA enhancements), it appears that there will be over 163,000 new trips in 2025 - source is http://www.atlantaregionalroundtable.com/documents/travel_analysis.pdf, page 7. If each new trip is considered 2 boardings, that looks like 81,500 riders additionally in the region.
From the ARC report:
Additional Systemwide Transit Use
There are 580,000 daily boardings (unlinked transit trips) by implementing the TIA in 2025 as compared to 417,000 today. Future no-build (2025) daily boardings are forecast to be 530,000. Systemwide transit passenger miles are forecast to increase in 2025 by 422,000.
So...if nothing is done with the TIA, there are projected 50,000 less daily boardings, but there will be growth either way. If the bridges and stations aren't funded to be maintained, will they be able to support the growth?
And for those who are talking about the amount of money being spent on transit related projects, please note from the same document that of the 157 projects on the list, 23 are transit related according to the ARC. In terms of dollars, of the $7.2 billion dollars in the 157 projects, 45% of the expenses will go to transit related expense projects - that means more than half will go to roadway, bridge, ped/bike and aviation projects.
Source = http://www.atlantaregionalroundtable.com/documents/final_report.pdf
So....let's recap some of the facts I've uncovered in my research:
1. In Fayette County, the equivalent of 100% of the estimated taxes collected will be returned to the County's benefit in terms of projects identified in and immediately near the County and in discretionary projects.
2. The increased ridership figures of transit improvements show that for $3.2 billion dollars over ten years, transit will expand, and $1.5 billion of that $3.2 billion (or 20% of the overall tax collections) will be spent for MARTA systems to be improved, rehabilitated and expanded (bridges and aerial structures, electrical systems, communication systems, train control, and improved signage and passenger information). The rest is for other transit systems in the region to be improved, allowing an additional 81,000 people to get on transit every day to work.
3. The rest of the money is to improve roads, bridges and other road, pedestrian/bike and aviation projects in the region.
And your contribution is $4 to $6 per month (if you spend $400 to $600 per month on purchases that have sales taxes collected on them) to get a 100% return on your investment with no effective transit in Fayette County.
I'm voting yes - how about you?
I'm still not convinced. I have read time and again, and it is just common sense, that all of the figures being put out there are nothing more than projections. Unless the ARC and others have crystal balls, there is no way to definitively say what will be in 2020, 2030, or 2040. The further out they go, time wise, the less accurate those projections are going to be.
Just look what happened right here in Fayette County when some members of the School System projected there would be hundreds of children to fill Rivers Elementary School. It didn't happen. The school sits empty and we, the taxpayers, are paying for it. Some members of the School System thought it would be a great idea to buy more property than was needed and then sell the unused portion at a profit. That didn't happen either. The property sits vacant and so far it hasn't sold. There again, the taxpayers did and are paying for it.
Right now, this entire country is sitting in the middle of a depressed economy. The economy has been taking one baby step forward and then slipping back two steps. Who knows how long that will go on?
As usual, our local, state, and federal governments are asking the taxpayers to provide blood from a stone. The taxpayers of this country are just about bled out. If this continues, there won't be any more U.S.A.
No, istilldontknow, I'm not convinced. Our so-called leaders have forced us to provide when there wasn't a need over and over again. This "build it and they will come" strategy doesn't always work. The economy needs to recover, if possible.