What does Muslim tolerance look like?

This is in response to the Muslim woman in the Free Speech section of 10/06 who says that she is the mother of a young man who was killed at the World Trade Center nine years ago.

I am truly sorry that you have had to suffer the loss of your son. But, the letter seems disingenuous, and the attitude therein perhaps helps to illustrate exactly the reason why there have been anti-Muslim rants in the paper.

Your son wasn’t killed by intolerant Americans. He was killed by intolerant Muslims. Yet, your plea goes out to Americans to be more tolerant.

You say your loss is made more painful by insensitivity to your faith. What about the insensitivity to the suffering of all the people of other faiths who are now suffering again at the hands of Imam Rauf, forced to watch as he moves forward with his plans to build a monument to Islam near the very site where their loved ones were killed by fanatical Muslims?

No one is challenging his right to build, though many are challenging his decision, which shows a callous disregard for the families of the victims of 9/11, but historically is very much in keeping with what conquering Muslims do.

Just how much do we, as Americans, have to give up before we will be considered tolerant? As Americans, we have already lost much of our freedom of speech due to self-censorship directly linked to the fear of Islamic terror.

Wherever Muslims have power in the established government, they are brutally repressive to people of all other faiths. This isn’t a statement of intolerance. It is merely a statement of fact.

Within the last week in Saudi Arabia, 150 Filipino men were celebrating mass privately in a Riyadh rest house. They were not proselytizing. All of the men were Catholic already. There was no one to proselytize.

Yet, Saudi officials saw fit to raid the house and arrest several of the men on charges of proselytizing. Reportedly, they would have arrested them all, but didn’t have enough room to hold them.

This doesn’t happen to Muslims in America. Ten aid workers in Afghanistan were recently murdered, execution style, because they were Christians. Again, their attempt to help victims of the floods was seen as proselytizing. I could go on for pages with this type of example. Do you see a trend?

Are you aware that the politician Geert Wilders is on trial for “hate speech” in the Netherlands for making a movie that simply depicts images of writings from the Koran, which are taken right from the book, juxtaposed with images of the violence, perpetrated by Muslims, that those very writings have inspired?

Apparently, the truth offended Muslims. Truth is the new hate speech. The Netherlands is said to have free speech, but Geert Wilders is facing possible jail time for speaking out about the injustices he sees at the hands of Muslims.

Wilders’ speech was tame compared to the many Imams speaking today around the world, speaking vile hatred against Christians and Jews. Where there is free speech, such as in the U.S., why should Muslims be a protected class?

I believe the intolerance you are feeling is directly linked to the terror emanating from the religion of Islam and the fear of the very real threat to our freedoms.

While I do understand that most Muslims want the same things that most other people want, I also understand that Muslims would prefer it to be under Islamic rule, which is, by the way, totally incompatible with the United States government as we know it today.

And it is more than just a fanatical fringe that seems bent on making Islamic rule a reality. If it was just a small fringe, as you and many others claim, I doubt that some 20 newspapers across the U.S. would have passed on running a cartoon in their newspapers last week due to fear of terrorist reprisals from offended Muslims.

Muslims’ easily-offended sensibilities and freedom of speech such as we cherish in the U.S. do not seem to be compatible.

I’m offended nearly every day when I read the things that get written about my Catholic faith, things I know to be outright lies, myths and distortions. I would never dream of killing someone over it, and I cherish the freedom that allows others to speak their minds, as it allows me to speak mine.

The Pope and the U.S. bishops have denounced bigotry against Muslims. While there may be a few Imams denouncing the terror, the majority do not, and many of them, like Imam Rauf, say one thing to placate historically uninformed Americans, while speaking an all together different and contradictory agenda when speaking to Muslims terrorist groups. (Could he be engaging in taqiya?)

Why does your plea not include a call to moderate Muslims to speak out against terror against Americans of all faiths? Unfortunately, those who carry the banner of Islam have declared war on the United States.

While I in no way support violence against Muslims or people of any faith, I do believe that the U.S. has a right to defend herself against terrorists. I am personally trying to take the time to begin to understand the Muslim faith. I am currently reading the Koran. It has not reassured me.

One thing we do have in common, however. For what has become an all too painfully obvious reason, I share your reluctance to print my name. Though I certainly feel I have far more to fear from angry Muslims than you do from intolerant Americans.

Please withhold my name from the letter.

Name withheld by request

plainjane
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plainjane

To the writer who asked the question "What Does Muslim Tolerance Look Like?" - and those those who agree with that anonymous person:
No reason to try to debate you. As Mark Twain famously said, facts are useless to those who have firmly established their opinions.
Well, it is MY opinion that your insensitivity is exceeded only by your embarrassing ignorance.

scribbler
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plainjane

You are pretty good at throwing loosely wrapped insults in less than a complete paragraph.... ka-boom.... .. another real crowd-pleaser!!

How about doing your homework-- And make some semblance of intelligent counterpoints to these well-stated premises.

Please try arguing on the merits--
...Instead of merely spraying badmouth at another contributor...

plainjane wrote:

"and those those who agree with that anonymous person:"

And everyone else at the same time??...
You are such a polite and considerate addition to this forum!

Are you capable?? I am sure you are...
Enter the debate on a level playing field within the arena of ideas.... civil discourse... agree to disagree... etc.

How about some basic respect for differing points of view...

No, wait...
That might be mistaken for "tolerance".

Roger Casale
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What Does Muslim Tolerance Look Like?

This is in response to the unnamed citizen who responded on 10/13 to the original post from a Muslim women. The comments and observations where 'spot on'. They were thoughtful, articulate and factual. I have just finished reading the Team B II Report - The Threat To America which was produced by the Center For Security Policy and briefed to members of Congress.

The report focuses on tacit supporters of civilization Jihad and details the Muslim Brotherhood's multi-phased plan of operations for the destruction of the West and in particular, the United States. In my opinion there is no greater threat to this Country than the plan that has been outlined by this Report. The Report can be viewed by Google Search: Team B II Report. The document is in pdf format and 177 pages in length. However, reading the first fifteen or twenty pages will be enough to inform the reader. The sheer depth of penetration throughout our financial, social, legal, economic, military and governmental agencies is staggering. It also confirms the suspicions and concerns the writer of the response shares in his/her comments about tolerance for Muslim initiatives and provides analysis of the consequences if we continue to ignore what his happening and allow this process to continue. I urge all readers to view the Report.

We are inundated on a daily basis by the Administration, the media and commentators with the notion that Islam is a religion of peace and that we, as Americans, must be excepting in our attitudes towards Muslims. We are told that the vast majority of Muslims are moderate and want only to practice their religion, work and raise their children. While this may be true, it is also true that the vast majority of moderate Muslims do not speak out against those they claim are but a fringe element who are high jacking their religion. In response to that claim I would suggest that if the 'fringe' equates to only five percent of the Muslim population (1.4 Billion) then the radical elements within the religion number in the hundreds of millions. Clearly a threat to our security and way of life.

Finally, I would encourage readers to view a web site entitled Religion of Peace at http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks. This site chronicles terrorists attacks from 2001 through today. It details the Date, Country, City, Killed, Injured and provides a description of the attacks. It will inform and enlighten citizens to the dangers we face. Someone once said that "the Constitution is not a suicide pack" and it seems to be wise counsel now.

Adam Apple
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Here we go again!

Another pathetic attempt by a typical anonymous coward at turning someone's personal tragedy into a bigoted rant, then ends it in characteristic fashion with a feeble disclaimer; "I in no way support violence against Muslims"!

scribbler
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Adam Apple - "Insults only"

Ya know...

The "anonymous" contributor presented his case very well...
Thoroughly... and very politely...

This forum is waiting on your well-considered counter-points.
Can you refute or impugn this contributor's facts and thesis??

Adam Apple wrote:

Another pathetic attempt by a typical anonymous coward at turning someone's personal tragedy into a bigoted rant,

Are spewed insults the best you can bring to the debate??

Nick M
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You're Being Dismissive

Adam, the article was well written and contained many thought-provoking statements about Islamic violence. There's something to be said about the fear of Muslim intolerance in this country when a television show can't even show a depiction of Muhammad. Why is it that cartoon shows like South Park can show depictions of Jesus, but are censored when they try to show Muhammad? The creators' lives were threatened because of one of their attempts to show him in an episode. Now, which side of this conflict is 'bigoted?' These two men tried to exercise their freedom of speech by simply portraying an image of Muhammad, yet they were censored because of the imminent threat of harm to them/Viacom/Comedy Central. By labeling this person's arguments as 'bigoted,' you are completely missing the point and being dismissive.

rbertram1
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Wrong

Adam Apple, this is clearly more than "Another pathetic attempt" at letting somebody's opinion be voiced. While it may have been a bit callous to respond with a message of this magnitude after the first letter, it was well-written in an objective light. This was clearly more than just a bigoted rant, as he/she used accepted facts and good logic to clearly convey his/her point. While you may be too politcally correct to like seeing these types of posts, at least this person is brave enough to still excercise their freedom of speech in an effort to make their voice and opinion heard. Yes, they witheld their name, but for good reason: if you made a controversial statement such as this, would you want to risk your skin just for the sake of pride? I think not. Overall, this letter was exactly the type of thing that people need to be doing right now: letting their voices be heard, no matter how politically incorrect it may seem.