Zimmerman & lessons from Mandela

Bonnie Willis's picture

One would have to be in a media coma not to have heard about the verdict in the trial of George Zimmerman over the death of Trayvon Martin.

Since the reporting of the incident in February of 2012, it was clear that it would be branded a racial issue in the media: From its initial reporting on NBC, where audio tapes were edited to make it appear that Zimmerman was racially profiling Martin, to the many marches and demonstrations we’ve seen take place around the country advocating that anything less than a conviction of Zimmerman would be racial injustice.

When the not guilty verdict came back from the jurors, the expected onslaught of tweets, posts, articles, and commentaries began, and once again our nation is divided.

Some are on the side of the Martin family, who has to live with the tragic loss of their son. Others are on the side of Zimmerman, who asserted that he feared for his safety and shot Martin in self-defense.

As for me, I am just sick of the divisive rhetoric. It seems like everything these days is viewed through a partisan lens. Black versus white, male versus female, Democrat versus Republican .... How about simply arguing for truth/justice/constitutionality, despite the parties involved?

As a parent, of course, I can understand the position of Martin’s family who recognize this as a tragic loss of their son. By all accounts, Trayvon was simply walking from the store, not engaged in any nefarious activity at the time of the incident.

And while he subsequently engaged in a fight with Zimmerman, no one who has gotten into a fist fight expects for a gun to be drawn on them, much less that they could end up being killed.

Yet, I don’t believe the prosecuting argument that once Zimmerman left the car to follow Martin — a legal act, though it defied the advice of the 911 operator — his intention was to murder the 17-year-old. If that was the case, why not shoot from a safe distance? Why continue to remain on the scene and talk about the incident days and weeks afterwards?

Only God truly knows the intents of Zimmerman’s heart. However, his actions during and after the shooting simply do not seem to be the actions of a murderer.

What grieves me most about this whole situation is how this case dominated the media news cycle for weeks because of the injection of race.

This was evident, for example, by comments made by Martin’s family attorney, Benjamin Crump, who equated this case with the 1950s Emmett Till murder case which involved a 14-year-old black young man being tortured and murdered for flirting with a white woman.

Mr. Crump said, “You have a little black boy who was killed ... It’s going to be reported in history books, and 50 years from now, our children will talk about Trayvon Martin’s case like we talk about Emmett Till.”

Making such a comparison belittles what true racial injustice is and seems to go so beyond the pale that I begin to question if the purpose of the Zimmerman case was simply to sensationalize racial tensions and deepen racial divides within our nation.

The irony of all of this is that this week celebrates the birthday of a man who seemed to take the opposite approach in dealing with racial tensions: former South African President and Nobel Peace Prize recipient, Nelson Mandela, who turns 95 this Thursday.

I stand in awe of this man for how he not only led, but embodied strength and peace in a country where apartheid’s racial inequality was blatant and prevalent in every area of life for blacks.

However, Mandela worked tirelessly to maintain a delicate balance between the transitioning power of all-white apartheid rule, to democratic representative rule.

In reading commentary on the Zimmerman case, I have a renewed appreciation for how monumental Nelson Mandela’s uniting of his country truly was. It is one thing to have the white minority relinquish power through political pressure. It is quite another to mitigate the feelings of resentment by the black majority and not have them abuse the power they gained.

To broker a representative government that is embraced by both blacks and whites is truly remarkable. It exemplifies how a nation can move past racial tensions that are so ingrained in their collective consciousness.

In contrast, despite it being 200-plus years after the end of slavery and 50 years after passing civil rights laws, one might think, based on the Zimmerman trial commentary, that America today is similar to 1960s South Africa — still enshrouded by racists who would suppress the rights and justices of blacks.

But I would say she is not. America is an amazing country, filled with God-given resources and beauty that can only be matched by her people — of all races and ethnicities.

Constantly insinuating that America is racist is truly condescending when I look at what true racial injustice looks like in other countries around the world.

So, I reject the actions of some black leaders who would use the Zimmerman case to intentionally stir up anger and racial tensions in this country.

Instead I beg them to look at Nelson Mandela’s example of how he treated the “other side,” and how he worked to unite a nation and not pick at her wounds to further divide her.

While anger may animate some for a short-term, it is forgiveness and love that truly heals our inward wounds. This love for America and its people is never blind to past injustices, but it is the more excellent way to uniting any people toward a more hopeful future.

[Bonnie B. Willis is co-founder of The Willis Group, LLC, a Learning, Development, and Life Coaching company here in Fayette County and lives in Fayetteville along with her husband and their five children.]

lillady
lillady's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/16/2008
"CRACKAA"- DM's definition

Sorry DM,

I'm black and you and I both know good and well that when a person of color uses the term "cracker/crackaa" they are making reference to a Caucasian individual or one whom they perceive to be Caucasian.

While the term did indeed derive from the "crack of the whip" associated with slave overseers, it's usage today has NOTHING to do with one's authoritative position.

You lost a bit of credibility with me on this one...sorry.

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
Illlady - not true

The term "cracker" did not come from "overseers" of slaves.

The moniker "Cracker" came from Ox Cart drivers that cracked whips over the Oxen to drive them. Crackers had proclivities for short tempers, hard drinking, bad manners, poor personal hygiene, bad language just to mention a few traits. Better known today as white trash. Therefore, to be a BA Cracker in the 18th and 19th centuries in the South was equivalent to being caledl a Wagoneer in the North. Neither term was very endearing. However, when picking the name of a baseball team in the late 1900's, I suppose it must have be socially acceptable or the Atlanta elite would have never let it happen.

renault314
renault314's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/03/2007
Say Hello to Roderick Scott – the anti-George Zimmerman?

Did you notice during the George Zimmerman trial how the media kept repeating the salacious question “What if Trayvon Martin had been white?” They acted as if this question was the perfect response to Zimmerman defenders. They pretended that this was a question without a “safe” answer, but in reality, the question had already been answered.

In April of 2009 Mr. Roderick Scott awoke at 3am to the sounds of three young men breaking into cars on his street. He called the police and went down to the street to make sure the young men did not flee before the police arrived. He shouted at the three to “freeze” and told them that the police were coming soon. The three boys stood before the big man obviously considering what they should do.

That’s when Christopher Cervini (17) rushed at Mr. Scott uttering “I’ll get you” or “I’ll get him.” Roderick Scott fired twice, killing the teenager. The trial that followed was again a case of prosecutorial overreach, as they tried to charge Mr. Scott with manslaughter. Fortunately for Mr. Scott, a jury of his peers agreed with him that he did only what was needed to protect himself.

Afterwards the prosecutor opined, “I just hope it’s not a message to this community… that you have the right to shoot an unarmed 17-year-old kid for breaking into a car.” The problem is that Mr. Scott did not shoot young Christopher Cervini for breaking into his car, but for attacking him. While the Cervini family may now be in much pain over the loss of their son, he brought himself to his tragic end through a series of terrible choices. Roderick Scott had every right to protect himself; he did what he should have… and a jury of his peers agreed.

Oh, and Roderick Scott was a 42 year old black man about the size of an NFL linebacker. Christopher Cervini was a skinny, 17 year old white kid with a little bit of marijuana in his system. Scott was justified in the killing of the younger man not because of the crime that Cervini had committed, but because Scott rightfully feared for his own safety.

There was no “white uproar” over the shooting of a young white man at the hands of a black man with a “hero-complex.” The NAACP didn’t show up to argue that the shooter should be jailed, or that the Justice Department should pursue charges of civil rights violations against the man for killing Cervini. Jesse Jackson, Al Shartpon, and all of the other race hate baiters stayed home for the trial. The trial was treated as a tragic situation that a young man brought on himself by turning to violence.

Which is exactly how the George Zimmerman case should have been treated. The next time someone tells you, “What if…?” You can tell them it already happened, and the outcome was exactly the same… minus the racial tension.

by Onan Coca reposted from lastresistance.com

stranger than f...
stranger than fiction's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/27/2012
Disappointing!

I sometimes delude myself into believing that my beloved South has progressed into the 21st Century. Then I (foolishly) read these blogs and realize how far this is from the truth.

It is really disappointing.

MajorMike
MajorMike's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/20/2005
stranger than f... - cause and effect
Quote:

Disappointing!
I sometimes delude myself into believing that my beloved South has progressed into the 21st Century. Then I (foolishly) read these blogs and realize how far this is from the truth.

It is really disappointing.

Yep, Davids Mom will do that to you.

Joe Kawfi
Joe Kawfi's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/20/2009
obama - the great divider

obama has done nothing but divide this country. This white black president is just as bad as sharpton and jackson in getting the masses all frothed up with anger toward white people. It's despicable for a so-called 'president' to make the comments that he did. He stoked fear and hatred toward white people, all over the actions of a Hispanic-American. Martin tried to kill Zimmerman by bashing his skull against the ground. That was a bad choice because Zimmerman was able to defend himself, as any normal person would do.

The violence that obama, al 'Tawana Brawly' sharpton, and jackson are perpetuating has already begun. Colored people are attacking white people as vengence for martins death. Colored people have done the same thing time and time again as vengence for a perceived wrong. It's nothing new.

In commemoration of today's marches, I'm going to go out and buy another gun and some more ammunition.

SPQR
SPQR's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/15/2007
J.K.

good luck on the ammunition part!

MajorMike
MajorMike's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/20/2005
SPQR - Ammo

Try Georgia Arms in Villa Rica.

http://georgia-arms.com/

2-4 weeks for shipping on items in stock.
500rd limit per caliber per customer,
we will ship product when inventory becomes available. Ammunition quantities are extremely limited.

meanoldconservatives
meanoldconservatives's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/09/2008
Joe, things are about to get real.....

I recently read that Stevie Wonder is going to boycott by not performing in any state or country that has stand-your-ground laws. Now we find out that at the NAACP national convention this week in Orlando, MLK III called for a boycott of Florida orange juice due to stand-your-ground laws there.

Both, obviously crushing blows......

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
how intelligent!

MLK III called for a boycott of Florida orange juice due to stand-your-ground laws there.

What a leader.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Ever hear

of the success of economic boycotts? Of course not. Sorry for asking.

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
I hope none of you

ever drank orange juice again....just stick with that "purple drank"

http://www.examiner.com/article/trayvon-s-skittles-arizona-tea-and-somet...

I think you probably juice up on it before rallies anyway.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Mrs. Wilis

Thank you for sharing your opinion. Love and forgiveness can heal fear. In the Truth and Reconciliation Program in South Africa, there was excellent leadership that guided a very,very difficult process. Healing will come through the understanding and commitment of those who have different political views - but a great respect for our country like you and others, to overcome this 'need' to take sides instead of coming together to find solutions to difficult problems. The program TRP seems to have worked for South Africa in starting the healing process. If we ever can come together and acknowledge 'race' and 'diversity' as a reality in our country - and really respect one another based on actions and character, we too will experience 'healing'.

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Let's just stop all trials and do it like American Idol...

...afteral isn't that what the protest are for?

Trial and verdicts by popular vote...well...only if the right sort and color gets the vote other then that the rest are just automatically guilty and must be proved innocent.

Seems like we have jumped in a time machine and traveled back about a 100 years.

I thought we have progressed past all of this silliness. Apparently not and it will be on display for all to see tomorrow in Atlanta.

conditon55
conditon55's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/12/2010
What if

What if Zimmerman had seen a white kid walking through the hood that night ?

Would he have gotten out of his car confronted the kids and eventually gunned him down ?

Would the police have waited so long to charge him ?

Would the jury have found a different verdict ?

Zimmerman is a punk with a hero complex. Big shot wanna be.

I wonder how he felt about gunning down the kid with the Skittles in his pocket? Big man huh?

Seems like the jury in Florida got bought off.

High profile case in Florida? Buy yourself a jury.

It was homicide pure and simple.

renault314
renault314's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/03/2007
condition55- please read my post on Roderick Scott

it is on this thread. Would love to hear your thoughts?

Are you just as mad that the black guy shot the white kid?

Was that homicide, pure and simple?

Was the jury "bought off" in the Scott case?

Is he a punk with a hero complex?

If you're going to spout unsubstantiated nonsense, I'm hoping you'll at least be consistient about it.

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
I don't hear your cries of outrage

for the little white todler killed by two black teenagers that demanded money from the Mother. When she had none to give them, they shot the small child in the face. Both those black teens were less than 17, on their way home. That was around Brunwick, Ga earlier this year.

Where is your outrage? Where is Al Sharpton? Cause the child and Mother were white, in your eyes, did they deserve it?

"What if Zimmerman had seen a white kid walking through the hood that night ? "

Martin doubled back and attacked the man. Most wouldn't do that

"Would he have gotten out of his car confronted the kids and eventually gunned him down ?"

"Zimmerman got out of his car because he was asked for an exact street address."

He didn't confront the kid, even the fat girl friend stated in court that it was the other way round.

"Would the police have waited so long to charge him ?"

Why? The police found no reason to charge him, he didn't do a crime. Defending yourself when someone is trying to kill you is NOT a crime

"Zimmerman is a punk with a hero complex. Big shot wanna be. "

I think you are describing Trayvon, not Zimmerman. Trayvon was a little punk who did his bes to kill what he thought was an unarmed man.

I am sick of people like you. You want to be pitied at all cost. This country has babied and made excuses for people like you and look where we are because of it. A whole generation of spoiled brats DEMANDING payback.

The real reason for all this? The pay check of the "non profit" NAACP official in Atlanta area is $141,000, Fayeteville, $147,000, and Peachtree City, $150,000.
http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=NAACP&l1=Atlanta%2C+georgia&tm=1

Condition 55 crawl back in your hole

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
suggarfoot
Quote:

for the little white todler killed by two black teenagers that demanded money from the Mother. When she had none to give them, they shot the small child in the face. Both those black teens were less than 17, on their way home. That was around Brunwick, Ga earlier this year.

You weren't listening. There is 'rage' in our country whenever a child is injured or killed by persons who should have been locked up and the key thrown away. Most of those who are black - their victims are black. Who was the citizen who tried to stop a crime - and the criminal shot his two year old? You and Kawfi are recognized for your insistence on violence, hate, and stirring up violence. There are always those who will try to divide - but the majority want healing, and working together to keep our country strong. There are those working for 'division' who are bringing in much bigger pay checks! Sad. . . that citizens can be bought. The rants here make it seem like the dividers are in the majority - but that is not what is happening today in the country. Citizens want peace for both families, peace in all neighborhoods, peace among Americans - even if they have different ideologies.

Quote:

"Zimmerman got out of his car because he was asked for an exact street address."

Look at the video from the trial. At the time the Zimmerman told the operator that he couldn't find the address - the address was right over his shoulder. The jurors, under self-defense instructions could not consider the inconsistencies in Zimmerman's statements - he was protecting himself - and the self-defense law was applicable. Why is it necessary for you or anyone to say it was 'right' for anyone to kill a child? I know, I know - you want to get your guns and kill all blacks that you fear. God bless you.

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
Trayvon got what he deserved

He attacked a man and tried to kill him. Just how many times was Zimmerman spose to let little old Trayvon Mart en slam his head on the cement? Trayvon's problem was he thought the Zimmerman was UNARMED. If poor little Trayvon hadn't been drankin that "purple drank" till he had liver damage....maybe Trayvon's thought process wouldn't have been so bad that he doubled back and attacked, and tried to kill someone. Maybe if Trayvon's parents had gotten married, or showed some family values...he might have had a better thought process. Maybe if Trayvon's parents weren't the kind that hopped from one live in to another...he wouldn't have been so angry. Seen the interview the real stepmother? Most whites have. Maybe if his parents hadn't been the type that cashed in (million plus) on their son, he might still be alive. Maybe if he hadn't been associating with people who will be 20 plus by the time the grad u ate..he might have had different values. He made choices...all bad...his parent's were no better.

I didn't hear you whinnning about the toddler in Brunswick! The two thugs that shot the toddler were black and 14 and 17 years old. Where was your buddy Al Sharpton or the NAACP on that one? If involved at all, it was to put money behind the thugs to get them a better lawyer. THAT IS WHY PEOPLE THINK BLACK TEENS ARE DANGEROUS. They are! YOU and your kind make excuses for them and still want whitie to feel sorry for you. what did the parents and the auntie of these two little punks do? Why lie for thema nd then try to blame white! That they were being singled out cause they were black! YOU AND YOUR TYPE ARE THE VERY REASON THESE KIDS ARE THUGS!

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed

I use to, now I detest you...and so do most whites. You know what I think? I think if there is any good at all to this, it will be that Zimmerman sues the crap out of the news media and lives well the rest of his life. I also think another good thing is yall having marches..have a million...whites everywhere are waking up to the fact that their donations to the NAACP was money pi$$ed away. Go ahead..show the world what you are made of. Not!

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
suggarfoot
Quote:

now I detest you...and so do most whites. You know what I think? I think if there is any good at all to this, it will be that Zimmerman sues the crap out of the news media and lives well the rest of his life.

Thanks for your honesty. Your attitude is what causes fear in African AMerican communities. I know very few people who think as you do - but it is important for your point of view to be heard.

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
I'm so happy to offer it! :}

I am responsible for my child, as my parents were responsible for me and so on. We never ran to the NAACP or tried to copywright or get donations for dead thugs! We didn't have any. If we did...we would have accepted our shame and realized it was no one's fault but our own. The plantation mentality is alive and well with some.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Your kind

ran to the KKK. :-)

I'm sorry< God is not through with me yet - I'm getting down to your level. Have a great weekend. Bye !!

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
never had a relative or friend in the KKK

but you sure can't say the same for the NAACP or tacking up a picture of Sharpton with your bunch can ya?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Blame the jury?

After reading the law - blame the law. The jury did what it was instructed to do. Answer the question, under the law, did Zimmerman have the right to protect himself. Yes. It was a homicide - under the law, he was found not guilty. He will have to live with this tragedy for the rest of his life - for he is not innocent. If any person feels that being a Neighborhood Watch Coordinator gives them the right to disregard the guidelines of that office - and kill a kid - under the law - well, the law has to be looked at IMO. The verdict states he had the right to protect himself. Even one juror has stated GZ made some bad decisions - but they went by the law. Our President shared his personal feelings with the country - and as I have seen in some comments here, we still have citizens who don't want to acknowledge that there are different perceptions than theirs on some issues.

Black males - and not just black criminals - are in danger in America. Not all black males are criminals.

meanoldconservatives
meanoldconservatives's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/09/2008
Who cares?

Who cares if black criminals are in danger? Not me. Who should care if black men are in danger? Everyone, but most of all the black community. And that includes the protesters who never stage massive protests like this about black men killing each other. Being born a black male, there is nothing you can do about it, nor should there be. Being a black criminal, that was your decision.

That's what makes the calls for changing the self-defense laws and stand-your-ground laws ridiculous. You don't want someone being attacked to be able to defend themselves and save their own lives? I know a few good ways to avoid being a casualty of someone defending themselves or killing you by standing their ground. Don't be a predator. Don't live an at-risk lifestyle. Don't try to take advantage of someone you think is weaker and unarmed. When you attack someone or engage them in a fight, things could go several different ways and you have decided to take that risk. You live or die with that risk. Someone who is attacked is not accepting that risk and should be able to defend themelves at all costs. It is exactly what I would do.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
moc
Quote:

Someone who is attacked is not accepting that risk and should be able to defend themelves at all costs. It is exactly what I would do.

Some feel that is what Trayvon was trying to do. He wasn't armed. He wasn't stealing anything. He wasn't breaking the law. You probably would have done exactly what Trayvon did if someone you didn't know was following you in a black SUV - and you would be dead. But as you say - who cares? Many people care MOC.

rmoc
rmoc's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/22/2006
DM and MOC get over it

Folks..DM has made a point that a jury found Zimmerman innocent..I believe that both parties were at fault, Zimmerman for being too zealous in his "duties' and Martin for having a chip on his shoulder. The problem is that the "Special Prosecutor" over charged Zimmerman. There was no intent and if they had tried for Reckless Homicide or Involuntary Manslaughter they may have had a conviction. If Martin had asked Zimmerman his intent or visa versa maybe this entire tragedy would have been avoided.

How can we help profiling when Blacks account for a large majority of violent crimes. DM? don't you look carefully when you see a young black man loitering in the Pavilion parking lot? It is a shame but until we get a handle on the crime in the black community nothing will change. The problem is that so many black youth (and white too) want to live the gangsta life and don't care who they hurt. They scoff at schooling and living like the "man". We can pour money into the schools but unless we turn these kids attitudes around no amount of "no child left behind" money will help.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
rmoc
Quote:

If Martin had asked Zimmerman his intent or visa versa maybe this entire tragedy would have been avoided.

I agree. I also agree with your other evaluation of 'gangsta' influence on our youth - through movies, TV, dress/fashion, etc. Parents should be on the frontline of changing this attitude - but parenting skills are more difficult now than ever before with so many outside influences on our children and grandchildren. Most Americans are doing the best they are equipped to do. . . and MOST OF OUR CHILDREN are not following the gangsta life style. However, when criminal acts are committed - the community that is the victim in most cases is also the community that 'raised' the criminal. There are organizations today that are looking beyond 'historical' reasons for criminal activity among our youth - and looking into what can be done now to change this destructive lifestyle among all of our children. EDUCATION on the destructive outcome of the use of drugs - from former drug users and law enforcement has been productive in some areas. (Research has shown that the attitude of "I won't get addicted" is prevalent among young drug users.)

Quote:

It is a shame but until we get a handle on the crime in the black community nothing will change.

Shared this statement with some 'youngsters'. They made an interesting comment/observation. They certainly agreed with you, but added 'until we curtail the customers in the 'white' community - drug dealers who happen to be black will continue to supply drugs to the customers that pay.) The car jacking, stealing, burglary, etc. that is going on in the 'black' community is not usually newsworthy until a victim is of another 'race'. Most 'blacks' who can afford to leave crime ridden communities - do so. There are, however, blacks and whites and well-meaning citizens of other races who are working hard to turn this criminal element around. My concern now is the areas surrounding our colleges and universities throughout our country where students are subject to criminal activity. Some citizens are asking for better lighting in areas; more foot patrol/bike patrol; asking residents/students not to go out alone either in the day or night, etc., etc., etc. Some feel that nothing is being done by members of the 'black' community - except by the media 'stars' Sharpton and Jackson - but this is not true. Anyway, thanks for your response.

rmoc
rmoc's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/22/2006
DM

I think you and I are often in agreement. The big problem is that the thugs after cleaning out their communities find better pickings in the more affluent areas which seems to account for the raise in crime on the Fayette County borders. My family is from a rural area in Alabama where most of the crime is white "meth-heads". Drugs and parental negligence seem to be the biggest "crimes" and have lead to so much illegal activity. It isn't just heavy drugs but it seems that everytime they arrest a "carjacker" or "shoplifter" they have marijuana on them.

I am not a fan of the Revs...they seem to focus too much attention on the cases like the Martin case instead of the crime in the black community. Not to say they should ignore it but why is the death of a black child in a poor neighborhood less worthy of the attention and outrage.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Rmoc

I worked for many years in 'gang' areas in LA. There was rage at the senseless deaths caused by drive-bys - etc. A group of citizens started a ' march' in the community to peacefully express their rage. They were fired upon by gang members. Today, the law enforcement provides protection for 'marchers'. This was in the early 60's - before the Watts Riot. I'm grateful that my children survived the 70's and 80's, and I pray daily for my grandchildren. The success stories in all of our communities are not covered enough in our local papers. I've learned a lot from these discussions. From my viewpoint, the improvement is noted - and there is still work to be done. The younger generation does not carry the baggage of hurt and distrust of both blacks and whites - and seem to be making headway in realizing MLK and Mandela's dream. I'm certainly not disagreeing with you. Thanks for sharing.

meanoldconservatives
meanoldconservatives's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/09/2008
Facts can be a pesky thing to get around....

Apparently there was a witness who testified that Martin was the attacker. Was there any witness that testified that Zimmerman attacked Martin first? It's kind of hard to prove you were defending yourself when you are the attacker. If someone was following me in an SUV, I would initially attempt to get away, which he apparently did not. If I made the decision to get the jump on them and attack first, that removes the self-defense claim. You weren't there and neither was I or anyone who is protesting, for that matter. But, go ahead and "feel that was what Trayvon was trying to do" in spite of the testimony if you want. That's what people with agendas do, feel things instead of facing things. Like facts....

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Please share that fact
Quote:

Apparently there was a witness who testified that Martin was the attacker

meanoldconservatives
meanoldconservatives's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/09/2008
The testimony you are apparently unable to find is....

easily found by going to Google and entering Jonathan Good testimony. Then you will discover things like this:

“Yeah I pretty much heard somebody yelling outside. I wasn’t sure if it was, you know, a fight or something going wrong. So I opened my blinds and I see kind of like a person out there. I didn’t know if it was a dog attack or something. So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

Guess the jury thought that was an "attack", huh?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
No Moc, that testimony

No Moc, that testimony validated that a fight was going on, and when it was observed, Zimmerman was on the bottom.
The jury took 15 hours to arrive at a unanimous decision. . based on the law regarding self -defense. We will see what developers with this case under the law - not on a 'blog'.

meanoldconservatives
meanoldconservatives's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/09/2008
To you maybe DM

You and the protesters can agitate it around like a washing machine and spit out whatever meaning you want. You were not on the jury that mattered. You are on a jury of your peers after the fact, believing you know better. You see it simply as a fight that Martin was winning. The jurors saw it as an attack that justified self-defense measures. They were apparently convinced he was in fear of his life or great bodily harm. What has developed under the law is that Zimmerman was found not guilty by a jury and you guys can't stand it. When you get the arrest and trial you demand, you feel justice is done. But when you don't get the verdict you want, you don't accept it. You demand a federal civil rights investigation and take to the streets. Some people even make threats and attack white people in the streets. Again, you aren't after justice. You want revenge. Nothing less will do.....

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Moc

Why are you repeating what I have already stated? Why are you equating me with your concept of the whole 'black' race? I see you as an insecure individual who needs to impose his opinion on everyone . I accept your opinion as yours, and I respect your right to express your opinion. I do not agree with all aspects/premises of your opinion, and state my opinion as mine - not anyone else's. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify my understanding of this tragedy. I don't speak for the 'black' race as you don't speak for the 'white' race. There is obviously a disconnect in understanding of this tragedy - but an opportunity to learn through civil discussion the point of view of others.

meanoldconservatives
meanoldconservatives's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/09/2008
DM

We have been at this long enough for you to know I could care less how you "see me". You attempt to control the conversation by labeling people and minimizing them. Much the same way you are trying to frame the debate with me now. "Why are you repeating me? Why are you equating me? I see you as needing to impose your opinion on everyone. I accept your opinion. I respect your right to share your opinion. I don't speak for the black race. You don't speak for the white race." etc, etc.

This is a blog discussion and we all know the ropes. Do you really think people don't see through the repeated tactic you use of replying to people who have disagreed with you with "thanks for sharing your opinion". It is a pathetic attempt to indicate you are controlling the debate that a fifth-grader would see through. Much the same as that laughable claim you made recently that you have an advantage of having access to "minority" information in addition to the "mainstream and conservative" information the rest of us have. I guess you found a secret fork in the superhighway of the internet that white people are required to drive right by????

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Don't forget moc that....

...the Prosecution's Star witness, Ms I can't read cursive, said Trayvon threw the first punch... That was the punch that knocked Zimmerman down.

So the only criminal in this action was Trayvon. He committed an assault. At that point we can surmise Zimmerman felt in fear of his life.

We don't know what Trayvon may have been telling him as he was giving his beat down... That was the deciding factor in the trial.

The only people who can't accept the verdict are the ones invested in keeping racial tensions present and stirred up.

meanoldconservatives
meanoldconservatives's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/09/2008
Yeah SL, I get confused....

I bounce back and forth between the courtroom testimony version that you alluded to and the "popular" version that DM is describing to us all. You know, Martin was just trying to defend himself and not breaking any laws according to the version she has been brainwashed with. It's a shame that so many kids are hearing that version, not knowing any better. But, it's all part of the plan.

I do wonder how Ms Jeantel is going to do with that college education that Tom Joyner offered her this week. It was a nice gesture on his part, but she hasn't even graduated high school yet. Might want to brush up on that cursive thingy too.....

Cyclist
Cyclist's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2007
Gee Condition55

That's real deep....the jury got bought off. Do you honestly believe that?

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Yes Cy C55 probrally does...

Most like C55 believe really believe the tripe they type.

OLDNCR
OLDNCR's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/07/2009
Cyclist-55
Quote:

That's real deep....the jury got bought off. Do you honestly believe that?

Of course not. He just wanted Zimmerman to be found guilty of not letting Martin beat his brains in. Isn't that something Z should go to prison for?

RKS
RKS's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/23/2009
OldNCR
OLDNCR wrote:
Quote:

That's real deep....the jury got bought off. Do you honestly believe that?

Of course not. He just wanted Zimmerman to be found guilty of not letting Martin beat his brains in. Isn't that something Z should go to prison for?

Since no one was there and since Martin isn't here to tell his story, you can't say that you know that Martin intended to "beat Zimmeran's brains out". You were not there, you didn't see it. This is what I know....a teenager is walking down the street after getting a beverage and a pack of candy and now he isn't here anymore because an adult man shot and killed him. Who is right and who is wrong, you don't know....but you do know that a 17 year old kid will never grow up, fall in love, have a college education, have a career, get married and have kids, because he walked down the wrong street of that neighborhood and an adult wouldn't stay in his car. That's what I know.

OLDNCR
OLDNCR's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/07/2009
RKS-I know something else

Here's something else I know. THC was found in Martins body during the autopsy. That is a result of smoking pot usually. Whether or not it was enough to make him "high" is debatable. But it was there. With that in mind watch this black pastor and listen to his message.

http://joemiller.us/2013/07/controversial-black-pastor-confronts-congreg...

There is no doubt that this was a tragedy. The question is who bears most of the fault and does Z bear enough fault to go to prison for it? To that my answer is no. I believe that Martin himself bears most of the blame. Even by his own girlfriends admission he started the confrontation that caused his death. What if he had called 911 instead of confronting Z? Maybe the 911 operator tells him who it is that following him. And maybe they tell Z that the man he's following belongs there. But as thugs will do he decided to teach the creepy ass cracker a lesson. That is why he's dead.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
oldncr

Taking sides in this tragedy is a waste of time. Our responsibility as citizens of this country is to take a good hard look at our laws - and how they can be interpreted/how they are interpreted. Zimmerman, under the law of self-defense - was found not guilty. He is not innocent of killing Travon Martin, Our system worked. Does our 'law' work? What is the message to our young black male citizens. Do you run in the face of danger? Do you walk - and look suspicious? As a sincere volunteer in a community and concerned for the communities safety - is it wisdom to put yourself and the community in danger by stalking/following a 'suspect' - or should one wait for the trained law enforcement officers? CREEPY ASS CRACKER - in the street language of the African American community is not necessarily a denigrating racial comment. As the witness described on a TV interview after the trial - CRACKAA is the name for anyone with authority. (Taken from the history of the overseer who 'cracked' the whip during work time or in prisons.) I know - creepy ass is derogatory - but as I mentioned before - fear was the culprit in that situation - and no one knows the truth of what happened except Zimmerman and Travon. The facts have been examined and the verdict is in. The African American community and many other citizens have real concerns about the implementation and interpretation of 'self-defense'. IF Travon had lived, could he have declared his actions as 'self-defense'?

1bighammer
1bighammer's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/25/2005
CRACKAA...
Davids mom wrote:

Taking sides in this tragedy is a waste of time. Our responsibility as citizens of this country is to take a good hard look at our laws - and how they can be interpreted/how they are interpreted. Zimmerman, under the law of self-defense - was found not guilty. He is not innocent of killing Travon Martin, Our system worked. Does our 'law' work? What is the message to our young black male citizens. Do you run in the face of danger? Do you walk - and look suspicious? As a sincere volunteer in a community and concerned for the communities safety - is it wisdom to put yourself and the community in danger by stalking/following a 'suspect' - or should one wait for the trained law enforcement officers? CREEPY ASS CRACKER - in the street language of the African American community is not necessarily a denigrating racial comment. As the witness described on a TV interview after the trial - CRACKAA is the name for anyone with authority. (Taken from the history of the overseer who 'cracked' the whip during work time or in prisons.) I know - creepy ass is derogatory - but as I mentioned before - fear was the culprit in that situation - and no one knows the truth of what happened except Zimmerman and Travon. The facts have been examined and the verdict is in. The African American community and many other citizens have real concerns about the implementation and interpretation of 'self-defense'. IF Travon had lived, could he have declared his actions as 'self-defense'?

Seriusoly DM...you and all the others expect anyone to believe that CRACKAA explanation? I was born at night ...but not last night. I've lived in the south my ENTIRE life. Cracker is a derogatory term used by BLACKS in reference to WHITES! It is and ALWAYS has been. That would be like calling a gay person a Fa_, then saying "Oh that's not derogatory, I was insinuating that the person was thin, thin like a cigarette, that's what the british call a cigarette"

That one explanation tells anyone ALL they need to know about your intelligence and motives.

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
Hammer

You're right and you're wrong.

When I was a boy, my friends and I would sometimes cash in enough empty pop bottle money, pay our 25 cents and go see the Atlanta Crackers play ball in the old wood stadium on Ponce.

We loved our Crackers!

Today of course things have changed, just like the Stars and Bars. A battle flag held in high by some but not others. I would suggest that like everything in life it depends on context. You, being white, look at it differently than those that are black. Where do you suppose "honkie" was derived? Anyway, we can't see through others eyes.

SPQR
SPQR's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/15/2007
ptco

so did you see the longest home run?

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
SPQR

No, I didn't but do remember the Journal reporting on Bob Montag's crushing hit into the coal yard. Like everything else in the 1950's it was a magical simpler time. Notwithstanding, the South's poverty and segregationist past, the South was a great place to grow up and like everywhere in America there was real hope for a better life.

If you want to read a great book about growing up in the late 50's and early 60's read, The Life and Times of the Thunderbolt Kid: A Memoir by Bill Bryson

You'll really enjoy it, even though it's set in Iowa. Bryson writes great books that are easy to read for pleasure reading.

SPQR
SPQR's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/15/2007
PTCO

Like you I also enjoyed seeing the crackers play back in the 50'a . A much less complicated time. Remember the radio play by play by Hank "the prank" morgan"?

OLDNCR
OLDNCR's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/07/2009
DM
Quote:

CREEPY ASS CRACKER - in the street language of the African American community is not necessarily a denigrating racial comment. As the witness described on a TV interview after the trial - CRACKAA is the name for anyone with authority.

So Travon knew that the person following him was a person of authority and still chose to wait for and attack him? Why didn't he just just call 911 or have a civil discussion since he knew this was a "person of authority?"

Quote:

IF Travon had lived, could he have declared his actions as 'self-defense'?

Based on his girlfriends testimony he (Martin) initiated the confrontation. You can't claim self defense if you initiate the conflict.

Have you seen this?

http://joemiller.us/2013/07/controversial-black-pastor-confronts-congreg...

I do agree that taking sides is a waste of time. So why do you?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
To answer your question oldncr

FEAR!! Why didn't Zimmerman wait for the law enforcement to come as was suggested? Trayvon is not here to give his side of the story. I'm sure both individuals in this situation were experiencing fear. From the conversation reported by the witness - there was the thought that Zimmerman was a pervert. Maybe that is why Trayvon didn't go straight to his house where his 12 year old step-brother was. Zimmerman's own words stated his fear that Trayvon was one of the 'punks' that has caused havoc in his community. FEAR - does not usually cause people to react rationally in a situation. I'm not taking sides in this tragedy - just want to make sure that our laws are implemented so that no one 'walks' when a human is killed. In the self-defense law - there was reasonable doubt as to who started the physical confrontation. I do believe if Trayvon had lived to tell his side - it would have been seen as a mutual combat situation - and if Zimmerman pressed charges, Trayvon could have declared self-defense. As some young citizens have pointed out - the crackaa in most situations identify themselves. There were no markings on the car; Zimmerman had not NW identification visible. To Zimmerman, Trayvon was a black kid wearing a hoodie that he did not recognize - and he identified him as a suspect (criminal). Zimmerman was found not guilty - but as I have said before, he is not innocent of killing a kid who was not involved in criminal activity. I wouldn't want that on my conscience for the rest of my life. A horrible tragedy for both families. Why do you appear to be taking sides? I believe the 'law' was followed - and our leaders should look at the implementation of that law so that no one feels they can kill a human being in a similar situation and be found 'not guilty'.

OLDNCR
OLDNCR's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/07/2009
DM-You are predictable

You are nothing if not predictable. I could read your response before you wrote it. There is nothing wrong with the law. Two people in "FEAR" as you say met. This is where the law comes in. Neither mans background matters at this point under the law. No laws have been broken at this point. So how do they respond? One called 911 and tried to maintain a safe distance either while looking for an address or following a young man in a hoodie. The other called his girlfriend and decided to confront either a "person of authority" or a pervert. In which case creepy ass cracker becomes a racial statement. You can't have it both ways. You want to teach people how to re-act and understand the law. That's a good notion. The first thing you tell them is if they start a confrontation this is a possible result. And if they start a confrontation that has this result it is possible that the other combatant may walk. So either keep moving or better yet call 911. Don't start something that you may not be able to stop. You spend a lot of time trying to excuse TM's actions by saying that he was in fear yet you want GZ held accountable when he was also in fear.

If you were walking down the street and some cracker (however you define that) decides that you're following him and confronts you. And at some point he's on top of you and trying to bash your head into a sidewalk how would you respond? Would you shoot him if you had a gun? I would. And I wouldn't care what color he was. I believe you would too. And that would make you a racial hypocrite.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
oldncr

So where do we disagree? Is this the society we want our children to have to navigate? A society where we 'carry' so that we can defend ourselves by shooting one another? Very few people are arguing with the outcome of the 'law'. but I think that the 'law' can be explained and implemented so that we don't end up shooting or cutting each other due to 'suspicious' activity. The confrontation happened. The trial is over. Fear exists in our country of those of a different skin color. The hypocrites are those who don't recognize the divisive danger that this situation causes - and refuse to acknowledge 'race' as a problem that needs to be addressed before we have more 'tragedies'.

OLDNCR
OLDNCR's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/07/2009
DM
Quote:

The trial is over. Fear exists in our country of those of a different skin color. The hypocrites are those who don't recognize the divisive danger that this situation causes - and refuse to acknowledge 'race' as a problem that needs to be addressed before we have more 'tragedies'.

I fully recognize the divisive danger that this situation causes. It's really a shame because recent events that I think were helping close that racial divide will now be forgotten. People like Charles Ramsey, Chris Garcia, and Tamar Boggs were showing America how Americans should behave. But then this happens and the race baiters like the media, Sharpton, Jackson, the NAACP and Obama have to make their divisive remarks. I listened to Obama talk about how old ladies would lock their car doors when he walked by their cars before he became a Senator. Is he so ignorant as to think that only happens to black men? I'm a good sized white man. About 6'3" 245lbs. Some days I don't shave and can look a little scruffy. I have driven trucks and rode motorcycles. I too have heard the click of older ladies (black and white)locking their car doors as I walk by. Am I offended? Do I complain to them about my treatment? Do I go on TV to try and widen a racial divide because of it? NO!! If these ladies knew that I'm carrying a gun they'd really freak. But if I were to pull that gun in their presence it would be to defend them. Still they don't know that and don't know me. So I smile to myself and keep walking. Not until a certain segment of blacks realize that taking to the streets every time a court verdict doesn't go their way is not the answer. And not until this group realizes that the race baiters are only trying to capitalize on the racial divide will we begin to heal that divide. Black males are in danger for sure. But it's mostly from other black males. Not until this segment of the black population opens their eyes and quit seeing everything through, as Dr. Manning calls it "black eyes" will we ever have racial harmony. I'm sure you'll follow this post with a long post about everything you perceive that the white man has done wrong and there is a long list. And I also realize that there are racist on both sides that will never change. We have to ignore them and try to move forward without them instead of letting them hold us back. We have to stop living in the past and look to the future if we really want things to improve.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Another thought oldncr
Quote:

People like Charles Ramsey, Chris Garcia, and Tamar Boggs were showing America how Americans should behave.

We don't have to look to the media to learn how Americans should behave. In my opinion, Fayetteville is a model of how Americans can live peacefully in a city that is diverse.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Oldncr

I understand what you are sharing. I was taught to be wary of white men by my parents, especially those in pick up trucks. The fear of those who are 'different' has been carefully taught in this country. You were dressed different, and had an imposing presence. I would have been afraid of you. To only react to those we consider race-baiters or fear mongers, I think many are guilty of this. But oldncr, I received the right to exist in this country without Jim Crow laws because Americans took to the streets. The country took a look at our involvement in war because students took to the streets. This sickness of racism exists - and to not deal with it through listening and discussing experiences will just widen the divide in my opinion. I've lived through a great change in how Americans treat one another. If you feel Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson stir up racist feelings, I also feel that Glen Beck, Karl Rove, Lee Atwater, and David Duke do the same. There also are ministers of different churches, representing both races who do the same. I look at the people I live with, went to school with, have lunch with, etc in judging those individuals and how they treat me and mine. I try to treat them as they treat me - with respect and civility. This judging blacks and whites by their skin and dress is a sick practice that is tearing this country apart. I understand what you are saying in regard to your experience, but black males in this country are in greater danger of being killed in the streets than white males. They are in greater danger of being killed by a black person or law enforcement. You should be greatful that you and your sons are not in this position. My sons are 50 and 43, and I still worry for their safety and I'm sure your mother does the same. Oldncr, what about the Trayvon story is 'in the past'? We are talking about a very present
situation and trying to work towards a better future.

There will be those who will try to break the peaceful demonstrations - but the majority of those who participate will be peaceful and will obey the law. There are many, not just in the 'black' community who want to send a message that killing is not acceptable in our country unless one observes that they or others may be in danger ohf losing their life. Zimmerman has expressed what his fear was. There are frustrations and strong feelings being expressed. Mandela and DeKlerk worked together in reconciling long held racial distrust. Americans can do the same. The younger generation has started.

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
You obviously never listen to Glenn DM....

...because if you did you would not be placing him in with David Duke...but then again you are still sterotyping those that you disagree with. Always have and always will

OLDNCR
OLDNCR's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/07/2009
DM
Quote:

But oldncr, I received the right to exist in this country without Jim Crow laws because Americans took to the streets. The country took a look at our involvement in war because students took to the streets.

I once worked for a boss that anytime things didn't go the way he wanted he'd threaten to fire everyone. The first few times he did this it upset us all and we worked hard to fix the mistake. Then after a while it became a joke and had no effect. The last time I remember him doing it one of my co-workers stood up and said I'm tired of working under these conditions if you want to fire me do it! The point I'm trying to make is the fact that this tactic once worked when the reasons for doing it were valid does not mean that it should be used every time something doesn't go your way. And may even be met with a backlash at some point. That is not something that needs to happen. Again I say look to the future not the past.

Quote:

but black males in this country are in greater danger of being killed in the streets than white males.

Yes they are and I've already acknowledged that. But whos killing them? Mostly it's other blacks.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Oldncr

You don't have to point out black on black crime to me or any African American in the US. But thanks for the reminder, I don't recall denying that reality . I'm very grateful that through generations of education, great parenting, good jobs, fantastic experiences with good friends from all over the globe, I am able to enjoy my retirement in Fayetteville and enjoy the view of deer, gorgeous birds, and other marvels of nature each morning. I checked this morning, and there is no report of crime within 5 miles of my home. It's the American Dream realized - and my neighbors are white, black,brown, etc, - truly an American neighborhood in the so- called new south. I want all Americans to have an opportunity to achieve this - anywhere in this country. We all will continue to address problems based on our own experiences. I'm happy to have been exposed to the different experiences and attitudes as expressed on this blog. In spite of perceived turmoil, the future looks bright if we continue to try to understand one another.

RKS
RKS's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/23/2009
How do you know Old NCR?
OLDNCR wrote:

Here's something else I know. THC was found in Martins body during the autopsy. That is a result of smoking pot usually. Whether or not it was enough to make him "high" is debatable. But it was there. With that in mind watch this black pastor and listen to his message.

http://joemiller.us/2013/07/controversial-black-pastor-confronts-congreg...

There is no doubt that this was a tragedy. The question is who bears most of the fault and does Z bear enough fault to go to prison for it? To that my answer is no. I believe that Martin himself bears most of the blame. Even by his own girlfriends admission he started the confrontation that caused his death. What if he had called 911 instead of confronting Z? Maybe the 911 operator tells him who it is that following him. And maybe they tell Z that the man he's following belongs there. But as thugs will do he decided to teach the creepy ass cracker a lesson. That is why he's dead.

You heard him say he wanted to teach the creepy a** cr*cker a lesson? I didn't hear that - is it on video/audio? You believe a 17 year old bears full/most responsibility for his death? Interesting. Would you feel that way if it were your kid?

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
Yes

"You heard him say he wanted to teach the creepy a** cr*cker a lesson? I didn't hear that - is it on video/audio? You believe a 17 year old bears full/most responsibility for his death? Interesting. Would you feel that way if it were your kid?"

The reason the answer is yes? Most whites learned a long time ago to be responsible for themselves and their children. Why doesn't your bunch try that?

OLDNCR
OLDNCR's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/07/2009
RKS-Dumb question
Quote:

Would you feel that way if it were your kid?

How would you feel if GZ was your kid or your brother or whatever? If you want discuss the evidence or forensics of the case ok. But if you want to play what if's or cry without stating any logic. Find another debater.

RKS
RKS's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/23/2009
Dumb Questioins

You said " I believe that Martin himself bears most of the blame." That is not at all a fact because you were not there, you didn't witness it and he is not here to tell his side of the story...so if we want to stick with facts, then what facts do we have to prove that Martin, a 17 year old walking down a road after getting a coke and a candy was responsible for his own death?

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
RKS & "facts"

it wasn't a coke (tea), wasn't a road (cutting through a neighborhood where he was a stranger); suggest you research testimony of that girl who talked to him on the phone (he called her vice 911).

OLDNCR
OLDNCR's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/07/2009
RKS-Read

Re-read my posts to you. Then follow the link that I already provided. Read AHG's comment below. And try to understand whats being said.

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
THC & TM

Actually, the Medical Examiner originally stated that the amt ofTHC in Martin's body was insufficient to cause behavioral changes. Then, before the trial was over, he changed his opinion and stated that it could indeed have had some behavioral effect.

Cyclist
Cyclist's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2007
OLDNCR

Yup that appears to be it… trial by the media and justice for the masses. Let’s see if the DOJ is pressured by politics to try Zimmerman.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Are you afraid to look at the law?

I know some of the kids in my community. If I see a 'white' kid who I don't recognize walking slowly through my community in the rain, with a hoodie on - and I, a concerned citizen approach him (without identifying myself as a concerned citizen) - and he hits me because he knows that I have been following him and we have a fight - do I have the right to kill him? Before you answer, what if that kid was your son?

The trial is over. Look at the law - and how it should be applied equally to all citizens - all of our children. The Zimmermans are suffering also - but their son is alive. I would hate to kill an innocent kid - even if it was within a 'law'. Surely we can find some guidelines to prevent this from being a 'legal' killing again. Will there be a Civil case brought against Zimmerman? It's possible.

kcchiefandy
kcchiefandy's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/18/2009
The law, DM...

...is simply self-defense; Zimmerman was not being tried under the much ballyhooed 'Stand Your Ground' law. He was judged and was acquitted of murder; the sad circus is over. Why these continued 'rallies' are being held is beyond me; protests led to charges being filed, the trial was held, now they don't like the outcome. The only thing that will satisfy these people is lynching Zimmerman.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
The Rallies

Are calling for peace in respect for Trayvon and his family. Would you prefer the frustration be manifested in riots? The fear in the African American community is for the safety of their males. There is anger in many communities that the 'gangs' are allowed to return to the streets; that illegal weapons are poured into the community (no one is reporting them stolen); that black on black crime/murders are not 'news' unless a 'white' is involved. Families who have worked hard; educated their children; respected their neighbors; maintained their homes - still must worry if some citizen will see their son as a suspect and shoot him. This fear is a reality in the African American community. The unspoken reality in the 'white' community is that a teenager will experiment with drugs and become addicted and/or die from an overdose. Those of us who talk with each other and share our fears about our youngsters in today's world are trying to work together to protect all of our children from OUR GENERATION who have fears based on skin color. When Cain slew Abel - Gods message was to not seek vengeance on Cain - and Cain was 'marked' so that no one would slay him out of vengeance. This lesson is being taught in many churches throughout our country. For believers, God's law will triumph. Believe me, Zimmerman is not locked up - but he is not 'free'.

Quote:

The only thing that will satisfy these people is lynching Zimmerman.

Is this a general statement regarding those who are participating in the rallies? It's too broad a brush. And using 'lynching' is a stretch. Most signs will ask for 'justice'. In my opinion - Zimmerman is not 'free' - and he and his family are suffering also from this tragedy.

kcchiefandy
kcchiefandy's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/18/2009
Well, DM, they got the justice...

...they were seeking, nay, demanded. Time to stop; they're just looking stupid now.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Stupid?

Poor choice of words . The Martins are not stupid.

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
Tracy Martin was in a gang?

way to go DM, first yall whine about Twana Brawley, etc. and now this thug. You didn't even do your homework on the parents. Stupid, yes, to think that most wouldn't dig deeper. With Daddy a gang memba, it was only a matter of time till little ole Travyon became a chip off the old block.
Nice, real nice. They made monkeys out of you.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/was-trayvon-martins-father-a-ga...
and
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/30/Trayvon-Martin-s-Fath...

and

http://www.re-newsit.com/2012/07/trayvon-martin-thug-or-druggie.html

http://rendevouswithdestiny.blogspot.com/2013/06/trayvon-martin-father-c...

and his mother no better, Section eight voucher dispencer!

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
here are some real good pictures!

notice the gang tattoo cover up. Nice...real nice..

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t977485/

"If the apple supposedly doesn’t fall far from the tree, Trayvon Martin’s father Tracy has been pruning his tree of his past to make sure his son’s image isn’t tarnished by it. Photos have emerged of Tracy Martin after his son’s death in which there is a tattoo on the side of his neck with an undefinable word; a later photo shows that tattoo was erased, replaced by a tattoo with two hands clasped in prayer. Other photos show Martin alternatively posing with a group that brandished the Crips gang finger signs or stood with a different group in front of raining dollar bills; both pictures featured Martin making a hand sign that The Conservative Tree House says are gang-related. "

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
Martin's real mother
suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
more Martin

Half way down is a video by Bill Whittle that sums the whole deal

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
this is my all time favorite

It looks like Zimmerman has an excellent chance of winning a lawsuit against Sharpton and the news media! Only thing that could hold that up is if they manage to get him shot between now and then. ( I think they are really trying)

I hope George Zimmerman throws CNN and HLN into the mix. They certainly deserve it.

Who knows, maybe Zimmerman will be able to buy his own PRIVATE ISLAND with the money and live a wonderful life for ever more at the race baiters expense! Now that would be true justice!

http://www.examiner.com/article/zimmerman-s-lawsuit-against-al-sharpton-...

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
take your pick, a lot are "packin"

No one wants to be Zimmerman without a gun. Zimmerman was lucky.

"Are calling for peace in respect for Trayvon and his family. Would you prefer the frustration be manifested in riots?"

That is what you do most of the time isn't it? Burn down your house cause you be mad? Makes a whole lot of sense doesn't it? The reason you aren'[t burning now is cause you learned last time...da...now I ain't got no wher to sleep and they canceld my Section 8 voucher cause I destroyed the house. Dam! It just ain't fair!

"The fear in the African American community is for the safety of their males."

I don't know why....they are the ones that do all the shooting...just this once though...whitie fought back! Maybe next time whitie has learned to do it again? Scary isn't it? LOL

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
GZ & His Gun

But unless he borrows one or buys another, he IS without hisgun. On Thursday, the USDOJ ordered the local Police Dept to put a hold on all the Zimmerman triala evidence--that means he doesn't get hisgun back. Also means the DOJ is in State business and it isn't clear just what regulation or directive allows them to do that. Any bets about just who told them to figure out a way to do that?

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
It was probrally that guy that said Trayvon could have been him.

...Yep I can see it now...Our President tripping on dope cutting through a gated community to grab some skittles.

Well, more likely he would be headed to his next Radical, Chicano, Socialist, Marxist group to smoke cigerattes and Marijuana
waiting to hear from his next radical Professor.

suggarfoot
suggarfoot's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/10/2007
yeah

they stacked the deck against Zimmerman during the trial, and now they are still at it.

SPQR
SPQR's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/15/2007
slavery

Slavery officially ended in the U.S. with the 13th amendment in 1865. 148 years ago. Not 200 plus.
It would be interesting to compare the political elements of U.S. post slavery with those of S. Africa's apartheid.

Recent Comments