EPA’s war on coal could sink America’s economy

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While campaigning in San Francisco during the Democratic Party primaries in January 2008, presidential candidate Obama told The San Francisco Chronicle editorial board, “So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant they can; it’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.”

Once elected, President Obama tried to keep his promise through the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009, also known as the Waxman-Markey Bill, which narrowly passed the House 219-212. Its cap-and-trade provision on carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions would put a price on CO2 emissions and gradually reduce emissions allowed until they reach 17 percent of the 2005 level by 2050. That would have put per-capita CO2 emissions at Civil War levels.

After considerable outcry when the House recessed in August 2009, Senate leaders decided not to consider the bill.

After the November 2010 election losses, briefings by Democrat Senate leaders for President Obama indicated cap-and-trade was dead. President Obama declared, “Cap-and-trade was just one way of skinning the cat.”

From that point the cat was slowly skinned by regulations from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to limit emissions from electric power plants such as mercury.

The cat was totally skinned on March 27 of this year, when the EPA published a press release announcing its proposed first “Carbon Pollution Standard for Future Power Plants.”

Most noteworthy in this proposed standard is that new power plants with a capacity exceeding 25 megawatts (MW) would not be allowed to produce more than one pound of CO2 per kilowatt-hour produced.

This makes coal no longer an option as a fuel without carbon capture and sequestration. To date, this has not been accomplished on a large scale.

The result is that electricity costs would dramatically increase because of the inability to use cost-effective coal and the sequestration, or storage, of a life-supporting gas.

This attempt to limit releases from future electricity generating plants results from the EPA’s misguided attempts to declare CO2 a pollutant. CO2 is a naturally-occurring gas, essential for sustaining life on this planet. All annual sources of emitted CO2 total an estimated 800 billion tons; about 3 billion tons are from U.S. power plants.

The concentration of the gas in the atmosphere has increased from 280 parts per million (ppm) in 1800 to 395 ppm million in 2012. Historically, concentrations in the atmosphere have been as high as 6,000 ppm. Those who work in agriculture can vouch that increased atmospheric CO2 in the past 60 years has increased plant growth and improved resistance to water shortages.

The proposed standard would allow natural gas to be used as a fuel, provided that conversion of the energy from burning methane to electricity must be 47 percent. Combined cycle gas turbines can achieve these efficiencies. This process burns methane as a fuel for a gas turbine then takes the hot turbine exhaust gas to produce steam for a steam turbine. This is routinely done with large natural gas-fueled power plants.

The standard would also allow oil for electricity generation, but the efficiency rate increases to 53 percent, which would be a challenge.

A big question is how this new pollution standard would interact with implementation of solar and wind electric facilities.

Both of these renewable energy forms have almost instantaneous rises and falls in power generation due to cloudiness, morning and evening changes in solar output and wind variability. Keeping electricity generation reliable would require fast-responding backup electricity sources.

Gas turbines kept in rotating standby operation can match these changes but come nowhere close to meeting the EPA standard. Using combined-cycle gas turbine plants for renewable energy backup most likely will not meet EPA requirements.

Increasingly stringent EPA requirements have forced utilities to shed the use of coal for electricity generation. Four years ago, 50 percent of our electricity came from coal use. At the end of 2011, this use had fallen to 40 percent. This new requirement would phase out the use of coal completely by 2050. The major replacement of choice will be natural gas, causing an increase in the price of natural gas and its rate of depletion.

Coal is useful for generating electricity and is the primary fuel for electricity generation in Georgia. Natural gas has better uses in heating, water heating, cooking, transportation and producing chemicals.

The carbon footprint from heating water from a gas-fired power plant is greater than the carbon footprint from using coal to generate electricity: Natural gas, mostly methane, has more than 20 times the greenhouse intensity of coal.

Most Americans are unaware of the impact of this requirement, a start to phasing out the use of fossil fuels. This rule alone will cause future dramatic increases in electricity costs and great hardships for those already struggling to pay electricity bills.

All businesses will be affected, many leaving the country for areas with more reasonable electricity costs, and product prices will increase.

The country’s economy is somewhat fragile at this time. The hopes for the future in the vast, abundant fossil fuel resources recently found and under development will be dashed as the new EPA pollution standards render much of them unusable.

This EPA carbon pollution standard is the first standard. If it prevails, more will follow until all burning of fossil fuels is prohibited. The next target will be nuclear power. Left will be solar, wind and biofuels as energy resources.

Unless America’s consumers, taxpayers and ratepayers express their outrage over this tyranny by regulation, the EPA’s path will reduce this nation to an economy and lifestyle similar to the early 20th century.

[James H. Rust, a retired Georgia Tech nuclear engineering professor and policy advisor to the Heartland Institute, wrote this commentary for the Georgia Public Policy Foundation. The Foundation (www.georgiapolicy.org) is an independent think tank that proposes practical, market-oriented approaches to public policy to improve the lives of Georgians.]

PTC Observer
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EPA - Mr. Rust's

article should be entitled:

"Coal Enforcement - One Example of the EPA's REAL Agenda"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58GBgm0hFho

ptc87
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Coal polution

Can we please get beyond Glenn Beck type character assassinations and use real evidence.
We have a real problem and we may have a means of reducing the pollution that causes many deaths and chronic illness to US citizens. While we still have a choice let us make the changes that will help to clean up our enviroment. We must reduce pollution or scale back our use of energy for our children's sake.

S. Lindsey
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ptc87 all I have asked for is the stats and links

to the assertions and statements you made.

If that is a Glenn Beck character assassination then so be it.

ptc87
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Coal pollutes in its mining,

Coal pollutes in its mining, transportation, burning and waste disposal. Some estimates put the number of deaths in the US at 30,000 due to the burning of coal.
How does that stack up against "coal at $0.53 per watt hour" or are 30,000 deaths an acceptable collateral damage?

S. Lindsey
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Stats please

and please not just from the anti-coal crowd.

ptc87 80% of all stats are made up on the spot.

Burning coal 25 years ago even 10 years ago polluted the atmosphere heavily granted. Like all Industries however they learned and with new technology are cleaner then ever.

In fact the push to Natural Gas is more political then practical.

"Shale gas pollutes more than coal, study finds"
(Reuters) - An abundant source of U.S. natural gas widely seen as a cleaner alternative to oil and coal is in reality the fossil fuel that creates the most greenhouse gas emissions, a study concludes.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/12/us-energy-shalegas-idUSTRE73B5...

You see ptc87 burning Coal produces Co2 you know that stuff you exhale everyday.

Burning Natural Gas however produces METHANE that other stuff you apologize for.

Methane is a hundred times more powerful of an air pollutant then Co2.

So let me ask you what source of energy would you prefer?

ptc87 it's like this we have to have Energy. There is no other alternative unless you are advocating going back to the pre-industrial days.

So what source do you like?

balobo
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Burning natural gas does not

Burning natural gas does not PRODUCE methane. Natural gas IS about 90% methane.

Just to be clear: Burning coal produces CO2. Burning natural gas produces CO2 also. Natural gas combustion only produces about 60% as much CO2 as coal for the same amount of energy extracted.

The unknown here is how much natural gas (methane), a very potent greenhouse gas, is being lost directly to the atmosphere at shale gas wells. The study that S Lindsey posted claims the amount is significant enough to make natural gas worse than coal; the study does make lots of assumptions. It's hard to say whether it's right or wrong.

There's no silver bullet for clean energy today. That's the bottom line.

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Lindsey - Stats

I believe your wrong when you say that 80% stats are made up on the spot, that's 85.7%. ;-)

ptc87
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Toxic Air

Stats you requested. These are stats used by the EPA to justify new standards for coal fired equipment. Heavy reading and detailed but enlightening,looks like sound science. China is building more dirty coal powerplants but that should not stop us cleaning our own facilities. http://www.lung.org/healthy-air/outdoor/resources/toxic-air-report/

S. Lindsey
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You might try using a source NOT funded

by the anti-coal crowd and does not have an agenda.

http://www.fossil.energy.gov/aboutus/fe_cleancoal_brochure_web2.pdf

Here is the DOE report on Clean Coal.. They are not in the bag that's obvious..

...and again I ask you what source of energy do you feel is right for America?

hutch866
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Lindsey

I have to question your statement that burning natural gas produces methane, CO I would agree with, but since I check the drafting of furnaces with a lighter, and have never had anything light up on me, I believe you are mistaken. Feel free to prove me wrong.

S. Lindsey
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Methane released due to burning and leakage

The act of fracking to get the gas releases the methane.. The act of using the Natural gas for fuel is a natural result.

Coal mining release no Methane.. so coal ends up cleaner then Natural gas if you include the production process.

I didn't have time to do the whole process hutch just the hi-lites.

hutch866
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Lindsey

Then I have to call BS on ya Steve, in your earlier post you said the "burning" of natural gas caused methane, not fracking. So hi-lites or not, your wrong. Feel free to prove me wrong.

S. Lindsey
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Don't have the time nor inclination

*

hutch866
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Well Steve

Didn't expect you too. Maybe because you can't?

S. Lindsey
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Must be feeling your oats tonight huh?
hutch866
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And again Steve

Don't see where that says burning natural gas PRODUCES methane like you stated. Enjoy that.

S. Lindsey
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Hutch

Hutch I know sometimes it is hard to follow logical conclusions... BUT... do try.

The fracking for production of Natural Gas for the purpose of consumption/burning is a net producer of Methane pollution. The act must have an action.

A yeng and yang thing here hutch. Without the consumption there would be no fracking.. no fracking no leakage thus no pollution other than from natural sources.

Please forgive the creative liscense for NOT FOLLOWING EVERY FREAKEN STEP.. didn't know there was going to be a test.

TO burn it one must produce it.. To produce it one must frack it.. To frack it you get leakage and viola and Bobs your uncle.

hutch866
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Lindsey

Whatever, Like I said BS. You were wrong and can't admit it, so frack you.

S. Lindsey
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Do you even have an argument hutch

or are you out trolling along just trying to piss people off?

Do you agree with ptc87 if so state it if not than state that.. going off subject to attack the poster is a sniffle tact going there now?

hutch866
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Lindsey

Just for your information, what ptc87 says means nothing to me. I'm just asking for the oh so Holy stats you keep harping on. I keep inviting you to prove me wrong, and you keep dancing around the subject. All in all I guess I'm saying put up or shut up. Are we having fun yet?

S. Lindsey
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Hutch hope you got some sleep

you needed it.

I was not saying anything about 30,000 deaths due to coal. I simply was stating Natural gas is not the only solution. I have no stats and gave none. I simply relayed the report from Cornell University and you went off on a logic bomb.

Sorry if it offended you in some way but that is not my problem..it's yours.

Yes I am having fun.. A good fight clears the head... Woke up feeling ready to rumble.

Have a good day my friend... Mark is back btw so is Shrindra they are back in the States.

hutch866
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My argument Steve

Is that you said burning natural gas causes methane, did you not say this? Do I need to go back and do a quote? Did you not say this? Tell me where I'm wrong. If I'm pissing you off, as they say in Poland, tough shitski.

S. Lindsey
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OK Hutch if it makes you feel better

I meant the production of Natural gas for the purpose of burning produces methane...Happy now?

Do you feel better... well good.

Still notice you have not presented an pro or con argument so what was the purpose of your postings? Oh right had to prove ones superiority.

Well done sir. NPO

hutch866
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Lindsey

I wasn't pro or con, just pointing out you were mistaken, You were the one who took it to this level. Like it or not, I care not. I did enjoy how you danced about the question. In fact, the way you changed the whole discussion, and tried to belittle me, well, it reminded me of Sniffles, so well played Steve, well played. As for feeling better, feel me and see.

S. Lindsey
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Consider yourself felt...

nite..nite. now

hutch866
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I notice

You have yet to prove me wrong. Actually it wasn't personal till you took it there. To sum it up, blow me.

Fred Garvin
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Cal - Is this what this blog site has been reduced to?
hutch866 wrote:

You have yet to prove me wrong. Actually it wasn't personal till you took it there. To sum it up, blow me.

Real nice there, hutchy. Sounds like someone spent a little too much time at sea.

S. Lindsey
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Wow hutch you took this to a whole new level sexual harrassment

no thanks not my type... You might call someone in the occupy crowd they like screwing the man.

Oh and btw-haven't been trying to prove you wrong that was your thing... and you might look back and look who said "frack you".

hutch866
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Nice dodge

Still waiting for you to prove "burning" natural gas produces methane. You were all about stats, lets see some.

S. Lindsey
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I didn't know you have seen my truck

My Ram is nice but you probrally meant this...

http://www.ecrostech.com/prius/original/Understanding/InternalCombustion...

No Engine is 100% efficient. So use of Natural Gas/Methane would increase it's output.

So there consider it done.

conditon55
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The Industrial Revolution

Coal fired the industrial revolution. It is 250 year old technology. The idea is burn coal to make heat to boil water and make steam to turn a turbine. Awesome.

At the Sherer Coal plant in Jasper Ga, Georgia power is buying adjacent homes because of Uranium contamination in the area. Before the coal plant, there wasn't any uranium in the area.

If wind and solar is deployed locally, even in Georgia, it can carry maybe 80 % of the demand for electricity generation. This dramatically reduces the need for base load generation. to 20% of current levels and that demand can easily be satisfied by natural gas alone.

The only reason to use coal is if all other possible sources and options have been exhausted. Just like we don't use steam trains to move the country, we do not need coal power to electrify it.

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conditon55

This is a joke post, right?

PLEASE....give us some hope that we have no one out there that believes this sort of "stuff".

S. Lindsey
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T Boone Pickens has Condition55

C55 do you know how many Wind turbines and how much land is needed to make your statement true?

One pound of coal generates approx 926 watt-hours.

One wind turbine (5MW proposed) can generate approx 400 watts-hours if the wind blows all day for a 24 hour period and it generates at 100% of it's rated output which priour evidence has been proven to actually generate at only 33% rated output.

Additionally the cost is about $2.00 per watt hour vs. Coal at $0.53.

The McFadden project is using 19 10KW units to generate they hope 28.5 megawatts of energy. If the Wind don't blow the lights don't glow...

Wind turbines only generate 0.8MW while Coal Plants generate 1200MW.

Let me give you an example...

The McFadden Project has 19 units hoping to generate 28MW of power therefore each unit will generate 1.5 Megawatts.

In 2007 coal was responsible for generating 2,016,456 gigawatts of power (see USA Electricity Generation 2007 Chart).
1 gigawatt equals 1,000 megawatts you would need 1.3 billion (2,016,456,000 megawatts / 1.5) wind turbines to replace coal. And coal only accounts for 48% of electricity production in the US.

Georgia uses approx 40,000 megawatts per DAY. At 1.5 MW per wind turbine you would need approx 26,670 wind turbines plus a 30% overage factor for outages and low wind areas so approx 34,500 wind turbines in Georgia to replace Coal. Additionally you would need 11,110 acres of land plus right of ways for the new transmission lines. So approx 11,940 acres.

So if you look at the foot print of the turbine itself and the right of way for each plus the road to the turbine you would need a length of turbines that would stretch some 500 miles(approx)or the distance from
Atlanta to Savannah and back twice filled with turbines and power transmission lines.

As an option you could use one farm of approx 20 square miles but then that would exponentially increase the probability of power outages due to lack of wind speed in excess of 12 mph on a consistent basis.

Not a pretty site.

C55 hope this info helps.. The hope of Wind power is well like spitting in the wind and hoping you don't get wet.

http://www.nrel.gov/analysis/power_databook/calc_wind.php
"2.1 Direct Impact Area
Development of a wind power plant results in a variety of temporary and permanent
(lasting the life of the project) disturbances. These disturbances include land occupied by:
wind turbine pads, access roads, substations, service buildings, and other infrastructure which physically occupy land area, or create impermeable surfaces. Additional direct impacts are associated with development in forested areas, where additional land must be cleared around each turbine. While land cleared around a turbine pad does not result in impervious surfaces, this modification represents a potentially significant degradation in ecosystem quality (Arnett et al. 2007).

In addition to permanent impacts, which last the life of the facility, there are temporary impacts from plant construction. These impacts are associated with temporary construction-access roads, storage, and lay-down. After plant construction is completed, these areas will eventually return to their previous state. The amount of time required to return to its “pre-disturbance condition” is estimated at two-three years for grasslands and
“decades” in desert environments (Arnett et al. 2007). "

btw-Uranium is a naturally occurring heavy metal that exist is some degree in all rock strata.

I could not find one single source for the statement: "Sherer Coal plant in Jasper Ga, Georgia power is buying adjacent homes because of Uranium contamination"

Please link to the story...Thanks in advance.

btw-Nuclear uses heat to energy (steam) transference as well. Would you equate nuclear power to the Steam Locomotive also?

NUK_1
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80% of electricity needs in GA????
conditon55 wrote:

If wind and solar is deployed locally, even in Georgia, it can carry maybe 80 % of the demand for electricity generation. This dramatically reduces the need for base load generation. to 20% of current levels and that demand can easily be satisfied by natural gas alone.

80%? I call complete BS on that.

Cyclist
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Condition 55
conditon55 wrote:

If wind and solar is deployed locally, even in Georgia, it can carry maybe 80 % of the demand for electricity generation. This dramatically reduces the need for base load generation. to 20% of current levels and that demand can easily be satisfied by natural gas alone.

OK, you got my interest. What's the source of your information?

Quote:

Just like we don't use steam trains to move the country, we do not need coal power to electrify it.

Just an FYI, the reason why coal/steam locomotives are not in use is because of diesel/ electric locomotives are much more efficient.

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