The continuing failure of Obamanomics
Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 4:24pm
Submitted by Lance McMillian
Submitted by Lance McMillian
One of the first lessons of political spin is, whenever possible, to release damaging information on a late Friday afternoon before a holiday weekend. The theory: no one is paying attention anyway.
Applying this lesson well, the White House quietly published a report before the July 4th weekend by the White House Council of Economic Advisors — a group of three economists chosen by President Obama — that laid out the dismal effect of the stimulus on job creation: $666 billion spent to create only 2.4 million jobs, for an astronomical total of $278,000 per job.
The news did not get any better the following Friday when the jobs report for June shocked everyone by showing rising unemployment — the latest in a continuing string of bad data on the dreadful state of the U.S. economy. The real unemployment rate — which includes discouraged and part-time workers who desire full-time employment — now sits at 16.2%.
Nearly three years of Obamanomics and the results are not pretty: record deficits, catastrophic debt levels, rising inflation, high gas prices, no jobs.
Why all this pain? The answers for the Obama malaise are many, but three explanations predominate:
First, government cannot “fix” the economy. It is the conceit of all centralized planners that the mere implementation of their plans will alleviate the problem to be solved. History, however, has shown self-regard of this sort to be unfounded.
The failed war on poverty, the billions spent on education for inferior results, the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the price controls of the 1970s — all attest that the best laid plans of the best and brightest minds play out much differently in the real world than they do on paper.
Experience is the best teacher, and the perennial failure of these big government programs brings to mind Milton Friedman’s warning: “If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there’d be a shortage of sand.”
Similarly, throwing money at the unemployment problem in the form of a bloated stimulus does not lead to meaningful job creation. Business creates jobs, not government. President Obama’s pro-government, anti-business vision doomed his agenda from the start. The proof is in the results.
Second, debt matters. For far too long, America’s political leaders — Democrat and Republican — have pretended that dealing with the country’s debt was an issue that could be pushed down the road to another day. With the additional $4 trillion in debt accumulated since President Obama took office, that day is here.
This bipartisan failure to make tough spending cuts has imperiled trust in the American economy, once thought to be the safest in the world. Combined with the steady rise of capitalism in other parts of the globe, the decreasing faith that the United States has the financial capability to meet its future obligations has led to significant capital flight as investors seek safer havens for their money.
To restore investor confidence, spending must be constrained. Economics is about making choices in a world of scarcity. Any leader unwilling to honestly deal with the realities of the debt crisis is unfit for office. Delay only worsens the eventual pain. The time for action is now.
Third, uncertainty depresses business investment. A little-reported fact is that corporate America presently sits on huge reserves of cash. In times past, businesses would already have jump-started an economic recovery by putting such cash to use in the form of labor and capital investment.
Today, however, corporate money remains on the sidelines because of the lingering uncertainty of the Obama administration’s plans — the continual threats of higher taxes, cap-and-trade, card check, job-killing environmental and energy rules, vague financial regulations, and biggest of all, the implementation of Obamacare.
In high school civics, we learn about the three branches of government: legislative, executive, and judicial. This conception of the federal government has long been inadequate. In reality, there exists a fourth branch of government: the administrative state.
The administrative state — alphabet agencies such as the EPA, the SEC, the NLRB, the IRS, and the like — develops and enacts the myriad of federal regulations that control much of American life. Two things to know about these agencies: (a) they possess wide discretion to do what they want, and (b) they are now managed by regulators hostile to the policies that foster economic growth.
An Obama victory in 2012 will only embolden these anti-business bureaucrats to carry out their political agendas without fear of electoral consequences. The business community knows this.
One of the biggest drags on the economy, therefore, is the terror that President Obama will be re-elected. To create more jobs, the President needs to lose his. Everything starts at the top.
[Lance McMillian is a Fayette County resident and law professor at Atlanta’s John Marshall Law School.]
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Wed, 07/27/2011 - 8:58pm
#92
Supply Side Economics
America was so fortunate to have Ronald Reagan as President to save us from the total incompetence of Jimmy "malaise" Carter whose policies drove our economy into the dirt.
Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:07pm
#93
Ah yes Joe
Ronald Reagan (pbuh). The last President to negotiate with terrorist in Iran, who fled when our Marines were bombed in Lebanon, who signed California's most liberal abortion law, who raised taxes when he realized that the supply-sided nonsense he had tried was nonsense, who traded arms for hostages. That Ronald Reagan (pbuh)?
LOL.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 12:14am
#94
Yeah Jeff
When Ronald Reagan skunked Jimmy Carter in November 1980, the nation breathed collective sigh of relief as we believed we were finished being lectured by the king of malaise.
Jimmy Carter, the person whose method of fighting the cold war was to tell the communists that we would not attend the Olympics.
Jimmy Carter, the one who perfected the misery index.
Jimmy Carter, who lacked the class, wisdom, good judgment, and dignity to lead our nation in any meaningful manner.
The open scorn of the United States by people in the Middle East can be directly traced to the inaction of Carter in response to the Iran hostage affair. The simple fact is that assaulting an embassy is an open act of war and all Jimmy Carter did was sit on his butt.
Since President Bush is blamed for all the financial ills in the United States today, we can credit Jimmy Carter with 18% inflation and the highest crude oil prices in history. (when adjusted for inflation)
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 9:36am
#95
You're a sad, sad person Joe
I wish you well and hope that wallowing in your sewer of bitter invective is not as good as life gets for you.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 12:17pm
#96
JeffC - sad
As usual JeffC, when your arguments don't hold water, you attack the messenger.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 6:19pm
#97
MajorMike
Do you think that I should engage Joe in a reasonable argument? Do you think that's possible? Have you ever read anything he posted that wasn't bitter invective?
I only respond to him to give him the thrill of spewing his vomit about my family. I couldn't care less and he gets to stay up late rereading his replies while playing with himself and imagining how well he told me off.
I thought I was being nice.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 7:27pm
#98
Jeff
So, you respond to "bitter invective" with more bitter invective and meaningless insults.
Your a true, blue bed-wetting liberal. You represent your party well.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 11:03pm
#99
Gee joe
I'm not bitter at all, nor am I a representative of any Party. Life is good! Maybe you'd be happier if you did something besides troll the bottom-feeding web sites day after day after day looking for stuff to post as if you'd thought of it yourself
Just a thought.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 3:57pm
#100
Majormike: Funny that u pick the most offensive poster
to shield from the most reasonable and benign. I guess when you see a coward trapped in a corner by facts, you feel pity and a need to say SOMETHING.... anything; even if it makes no sense at all. Since Jeff's arguments don't "hold water," please tell us what was inaccurate in his recollection of Reagan's legacy.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 4:34pm
#101
kevink - nice try kevin
Nice try kevin but there's not much way that you can twist this one to suit your purpose. Unlike many posters, I'm not interested in debating facts so that you can argue/advance your (liberal) viewpoint in these blogs.
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 5:50am
#102
majormike. I am quite aware you don't "debate facts"
That isn't exactly a revelation, mate. And that is exactly my point.
But I also wonder, quite infrequently, what your point is.
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 7:21am
#103
.kevink - truth
Truth - something that you should include in your "progressive" ramblings but don't as often as not.
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 9:56am
#104
again, majormike: what is not true....
In my or jeff's statements? Give us usable information, man. My chihuahua speaks with more substance than you are giving us lately. Me thinks if you read too many bumper stickers u begin tospeak like one.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 9:44am
#105
He can dish it out.......
.............but he can't take it.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 6:57am
#106
Jeff Carter and Carbon: There is a reason jokecoward ignores
Reagan's ACTUAL record. It doesn't support his nonsensical rambling. He raised taxes as the governor of California. He raised taxes 11 times as a two-term President. He was a UNION President for 6 individual terms.
Everything Jeff said of Reagan's presidency is 100% true; so jokeawfi the anonymous insulting coward ignored each fact.
Capital gains taxes were RAISED by Ronald Reagan. These taxes were higher under Reagan than they are now under Obama.
What the anonymous coward jokeawfi will NEVER admit is this: If Ronald Reagan's policies were alive and well today the Tea Party would call them evidence of socialist tyranny. It's time for adults to take back the Republican party, and stop making it look like Republicans are ignoring reality. Doesn't look like that's gonna happen though.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 8:34pm
#107
Reagan's record
The facts are quite clear: under Reagan the federal government grew in size to its highest point in history to that point and so did deficit spending. Whether one likes Reagan the person, governor, actor or President, he wasn't a "fiscal conservative" by any means. He was immensely popular with the fundies on the far right because most of them tend to also not be fiscal conservatives either and really like expanding the size and scope of government, provided that one of "their" candidates are the ones in control. Otherwise, government is totally evil.
As far as the Tea Party....I guess it depends on which TP group you are talking about. The Tea Party Patriots are the biggest and are fiscal hawks who don't care about social issues. The other smaller factions of the TP have definitely been hijacked and co-opted by the fundies who were afraid they were about to be made irrelevant and they are the ones generally raising all kinds of hell about every social issue and that's the legislation they have been solely focused on until this debt debate heated up. Now, they simply are against everything.
Wed, 07/27/2011 - 8:25pm
#108
JeffC
Supply-sided economics is junk.
Now I know for a fact that the only reason that you say this is because it is true. I would like to see Ronald Reagan's likeness on a wooden nickel with an image depicting a Trojan Horse on the other side.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 10:34pm
#109
Carb...
"The term “supply-side economics” is used in two different but related ways. Some use the term to refer to the fact that production (supply) underlies consumption and living standards. In the long run, our income levels reflect our ability to produce goods and services that people value. Higher income levels and living standards cannot be achieved without expansion in output. Virtually all economists accept this proposition and therefore are “supply siders.”"
Just an FYI.
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/SupplySideEconomics.html
What do you think is the driver of the economy? Taxes? Spending?
Wed, 07/27/2011 - 8:01am
#110
McMillian: Communist conspiracy?
You sound exactly like the horrible 50's congressional hearing concerning communists in the movies!
Releasing info on the 4th of July!!!! Really, sir? I'm sure that did irreparable damage.
Wed, 07/27/2011 - 6:51am
#111
Our next president will seem an instant success and hero.
After Obama's fiasco, whoever is to succeed him can do no worse and will inevitably improve our situation immensely.
And the sooner the better.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 7:13am
#112
BHH, certainly you can contribute something of substance, cant u
Obama's Fiasco? Just the facts, Ma'am.
1) 3 trillion dollars of Our current deficit is due to unpaid tax cuts in 2001. 4 trillion is due to Medicare Part D which was unfunded and unaccounted for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
2) Republican political hero Ronald Reagan ran deficits, raised taxes 11 times as President, and signed comprehensive immigration reform.
Policies you try to pin on President Obama and call a fiasco were actually implemented by Ronald Reagan.
And, bottom line, you have no candidate that will beat President Obama.
You have the Romneycare problem, not that Southern conservatives will line up behind a Mormon.
You have Michele Bachmann who feels US defaulting on our debt is not a big deal; the same Michele Bachmann who has made money on "socialist" farm subsidies; the same Bachmann who worked for The IRS LOL.
You have Herman Cain who would subject Muslim Americans to a special loyalty oath before they could work for his administration.
In short, BHH, all you appear to have is angst and anger towards President Obama which you haven't supported with facts. And you have no candidate that can beat him with ideas in 2012.
As a side note, I can't wait for Republican Presidential candidates to describe how they will gut social security and Medicare. The Tea Party is going to LOVE that :-).
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 3:33pm
#113
Yes kevink
Unfunded tax cuts, unfunded wars, unfunded Medicare D, unfunded prescription drug plan. Now the Republicans are trying to deny the mess they are responsible for by claiming somehow that their Republican President and their Republican presidential candidate were never “real” Republicans. Bush and McCain were RINOs, not the leaders of their Party.
I believe they have misjudged this crisis that they manufactured. The American people are not stupid. Let then nominate Bachmann. The TEA Party adherents are domestic terrorists gleefully willing to bring the United States down to further their ideology. They are fifth columnist whose actions are verging on treasonous.
Somehow, they think this is not going to play in next years election. They believe that they can take the country’s reputation and standing in the world hostage to their political ideology with no consequences to their Party. They are mistaken. Like their hero, Glen Beck, who looked at the tragedy in Norway and declared that the children victims who were murdered were like the Hitler Youth, their world view is so distorted and perverse that it defies reality.
I can already hear the plaintive wails from the coming campaign that the dastardly Democrats are scaring granny, saying that the Rs will destroy Medicare and Social Security. Well, they are correct. The Dems are not only going to be saying that, they’re going to be saying it with a billion dollars in advertising backing them up.
As to the Republican candidates, there’s Romney, the eventual nominee, Bachmann the TEA Party’s no-nothing fool, and Perry, their great hope. Newt flamed out faster than seems possible, Pawlenty looked fabulous until he got into the race, Cain had an outside chance for VP until he opened his mouth and revealed that he was just another forgettable bigot. Huntsman is not insane and therefore has no chance to be supported by the TEAs against Romney.
I’m tired of them. Let them force the United States of America to default on the country’s debts. Let them do their best to intentionally damage America. Then let’s have an election.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 9:44am
#114
JeffC: Kicking that can
I’m tired of them. Let them force the United States of America to default on the country’s debts. Let them do their best to intentionally damage America. Then let’s have an election.
Last time I checked, 40% of the "guv's" expenditures comes from borrowed money. It seems to me that our all our elected officials have intentionally damaged America.
BTW, I still believe in an 11 hour agreement..........they'll just have to kick that can with a little more force. In the end, we'll all be standing in a line. I'll save you a spot.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 10:31am
#115
Cyclist
I was hoping you weren't right on this one. This spectacle of 'KICK THE CAN' is embarrassing. These men and women are our country's leaders, we elected them. The buck stops with US! We need leaders who are statesmen, not leaders who are loyal to their signed pledges or political goals in spite of what the country needs. Given: There are diametrically different roads to solving this crisis - but mature men and women MUST TALK TO EACH OTHER and compromise to find the best solution for the country. I watched as the market dropped yesterday while our 'leaders' took snipes at one another. Already, lenders are making plans to raise interest rates. Lord, isn't that a 'tax' hike? What in the world are these men and women thinking? The American people are the 'can' - and it hurts!! Stop the 'kicking' and start talking and compromising.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 12:19pm
#116
Davids mom
Boehner's plan would have added $900 billion to the debt with $917 billion in budget cuts over 10 years. He then he sweeten the pot with another $1.6 trillion to the debt ceiling. Senator Ried's plan would raise the debt ceiling by $2.4 trillion and would kick that "can" to 2013.
My prediction - Ried's plan, or a derivative there of, will pass. Our elected leaders have simply ran out of time. I can only hope - like PTCO says - our elected officials have the courage to make some very painful decisions. I certainly don't see any good coming out of this mess even at my pay grade.
BTW, give your mom a hug.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 4:14pm
#117
Cyclist
You've been right so far. The 'older' generation tells me the only thing new in this situation is that most of the crap is out there for the public to see. There are no winners in this situation, and the American people, as well as the global economy are the losers. Wouldn't it be great if enough American citizens would pledge a certain monthly amount, and we paid off the debt and elected a Congress next year who worked for us rather than party? Then they could go on 'doing business the Washington way' without the 'debt'. ( And the American people would be in control rather than special interests and powerful 'journalists'. Sometimes dreams do come true.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 6:29pm
#118
DM & MIKE
First, the idea that there could possibly be a way to unseat every representative and every senator en masse is practically impossible without the military going in, hunting each down and eliminating them! (Two 747's to Guantanamo).
The military however would not move without The President ordering the Secretary to proceed and the Generals and Admirals strapped on their sidearms also and led the charge!
Once that was done then we would have something like Libya, Egypt and Syria right now. Once the military took over there is no way that they would let a rag-tag bunch of new congress people suddenly move into the offices!
There aren't that many TEAs anyway.
Of course the President and Vice President would also be removed and sent to France. Any cabinet head who wanted to go would be allowed.
Then, all the Muslims here, the Mexicans, the Asians, and the Central and South Americans, would also leave as refugees.
The Interior, Education, and three or four other cabinet departments would also just be shut down and all employees sent home with no severance pay.
Most of the federal regulators of everything would be fired along with their staff.
We would then void all of our debt, and deal strictly in cash and barter.
We wouldn't give a rat about our "credit rating."
Hordes of people on welfare, assistance with housing, disabled, and fired from all of the above would then march on Washington and be shot by the Marines and Guard!
We can still make it with 40-50% unemployed. Minimum wage would be eliminated since one can eat and camp out on about $2.50 per hour. No benefits. No health insurance, no social security, and certainly no unions!
I'm not sure about the other states, but I think all current teachers in all of Georgia also be fired instantly, call off a year's school and start over with Norweigan and Swedish teachers.
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 7:19am
#119
That sounds like a plan.
Then all we have to do is unseat the military and start over.
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 8:17am
#120
Round
LOL! Now that is a scary scenario - don't you think we could just start off by not electing any of the members of this Congress when they come up for re-election? Can we find people in our communities who have the skill to listen to others and talk to one another as a process to solve problems? Regarding paying off of the debt, is it too difficult for the money to go directly to the Treasury earmarked for the debt? Once it gets there, no need to change the current structure overnight, but at least we don"t owe China, etc. I just want to see the funds back in the hands of the American people. Maybe a long range plan?
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 5:46pm
#121
DM
I believe that you on the right track, but the only means of attaining a Congress willing to actually work for the American people is to first summarily tar, feather, and expel (on a rail, no less) each of the 535 we have now. Afterwards, I feel relatively sure that those that follow would get the message.
Surely, you realize that the country would be in better shape without the likes of Reid, Boener, et al.
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 11:02am
#122
MIKE
I would agree that about 95% of our congress needs to go home for good.
Sad that they would be the only congresses punished for our fourteen trillion debt.
However it can not happen that quickly. Will take many years and all this will be forgotten by then.
Now, since it does appear that the spending will be cut by three trillion dollars in whatever final bill comes out of current negotiations without any additional income from anyone, the next problems from all this are local.
The following should make the TEAS and their followers very happy:
Federal help to Georgia and all states will disappear for the following:
Schools
Health Care
Unemployment payments (GA already owes 3/4 billion for this--off the books)
Roads, bridges, etc.
It will be interesting to see Georgians raise state and local taxes to do these jobs---probably half-assed!
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 6:07pm
#123
Mike King
Amen!! The news media is showing this guy who is encouraging $5.00 a month being sent straight to the Treasury earmarked for paying off fhe debt. As for a tar and feather party, I think that would unify the country! I think the chicken game is backfiring, for it woke up everyone - and no one likes what they see
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 5:39pm
#124
JeffC - Spectacle
Problem is that both parties are at fault...and the world is watching as both parties spin out of control, much like your spin here.
No Jeff, I am not a Teaist either, never been, never will.
I am just a citizen that continues to be amazed at the political spectacle with no way to intervene.
If the country falls or falters, it is a plague on both your houses.
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 11:40am
#125
PTCO, the Constitution is Faulty
in that it gives budget power to the same people responsible for making laws! This is a huge moral hazard that humanity is unable to overcome! Don't blame humans for being humans--blame the Constitution! We must start anew! Cut the federal budget to zero for 10 years, then see what the people actually need! Only pay interest on treasury securities, because we have a contractual obligation to do do! Sell government land and other assets to pay for it--no taxes! Maybe the Chinese will take the Grand Canyon in lieu! Dunkin Donuts would like to have the Washington Monument I'm sure! The Koch Brothers would pay at least a billion or two to have the original Constitution. Carlos Salim might be interested in buying the Declaration of Independence! Warren has no interest in anything other than Dairy Queen! Legalize drugs--sell Arlington Cemetery to the highest bidder to plow under to grow high-grade bud--military corpses make good dope fertilizer! Larry Flynt would pay top dollar for the White House! Don't give up just when your dreams are so close to reality!
And by and by Christopher Robin came to an end of things, and he was silent, and he sat there, looking out over the world, just wishing it wouldn't stop.
Winnie the Pooh
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 12:00pm
#126
Ninja - And
your point is?
While you superficially play around with your postings here, you should be using this time to look for another line of work Ninja. This assumes that a private company not tied in someway to government dependency would like to hire you. I don't know, but don't you owe it to your family to be looking anyway?
Next year, after President Obama is elected for a second term, or even if he isn't inflation will reduce your income significantly Ninja, so I would go for a job that is about double what you currently make, this way you will keep up with it. Oh yes, and don't forget those extra taxes for Obamacare and the expiration of those "Bush tax cuts", so you may need to add a little bit to take care of those little Ninjas of yours.
I think John Maynard Keynes, your hero, said it best:
"By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 12:30pm
#127
PTCO, There is No Real Point
I just like to see my own writing in print! Thank you Cal! If nothing, I am smart about global finance, and the Braves! Because of my superior financial intellect, I have structured my business empire so that inflation and a weaker dollar are good for me! I know all about Keynes, Friedman (both of them), Rand, von Mises, and more! They are all right at some point. The trick lies not in determining whether a particular theory is true, but when the the masses think one is true and will act accordingly! I get $1,000 an hour plus for this stuff in the free market! Private companies cannot afford me! Howard Ruff has nothing on me! You continue to fight wars from long ago! Lay down your weapons of class destruction and embrace life--its a grand ride! Six Flags awaits! If you are too infirm to ride, buy tickets for some poor kids and watch the joy in their eyes as they zoom down Goliath! Giving is good for the soul!
Braves vs. the Fish at 1:35 today! Will Bourn play?
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 2:13pm
#128
Ninja - Just as
I thought "There is no real point..."
Now get out there and start looking for your next gig, since private companies can't afford you then I suppose it's only the government that can. You're not alone Ninja, unfortunately.
"I hear that train a com'in....." it's running out of steam.
Not infirm at all Ninja, I just got back from a 20 mile bike ride! Took some poor kids on the bikes I bought them, everyone's tired but happy. Really hot too. You want to take them to the Braves game next time? We have 10 of them, but they all prefer a box seat behind home plate. You should easily afford this on all that money you make off the government. You can take you kids too, to see the joy in their eyes. ;-)
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 12:50pm
#129
Ninja: Great trade to get Bourn
And they didn't have to give up a real lot and were able to keep all the top pitching prospects. Now, a middle reliever and the Braves could make a big impact in the post season.
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 1:27pm
#130
Nuky, I Agree!
They 'got rid of' Schafer, who has never hit above .250 and is prone to injury without HGH in his system! Never heard of the pitchers they sent along with him either. Yes, good solid middle reliever is the only missing piece. The tattooed Australian dude should be back in August if nothing else. I would be tempted to bring up Pastornicky as well. Gonzo isn't so gonzo in swinging the stick. Pastornicky would up an upgrade at this point! Fran Wren strikes a blow for Randian Objectivism!
Vote No on Motel Six in PTC!
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 10:30pm
#131
Well, the House passed the "Boehner Bill"
...and it got tabled immediately over in the Senate to no one's surprise. I guess it was a "feel good" moment for the TP and some Repubs who can tell their constituents that they held the line and all, even if it was purely symbolic. Now the Senate gets its turn to do the exact same thing, only their base is likely to be rather PO'd that Reid's plan has no tax hikes. Then, the Grand Compromise and more media overdrive and theatrics while nothing really changes. Wheeeee!
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 10:37pm
#132
NUK_1 - Just
more of the same, you're right about this.
I read today that the GDP was revised downward for the 1st quarter, the quarter ended June was .2% below expectations and just about everyone believes that the back half of the year will yield a bad, bad, result.
We all may be in for the ride of our lives....if you believe in prayer, now's the time to do it, we have fools for representatives.
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:00pm
#133
PTCO: Double dip recession
GDP being revised to 1.3% and the continued high unemployment do not bode well. Add into that equation a sudden surge in credit card purchasing by consumers after a period of decline(they have no other means to pay their bills now) and signs point to more rough times ahead. Anyone waiting around for the "government" to magically create jobs or politicians to simply get out of the way are very naive.
Obama's latest poll ratings hit a new low at 40% and Congress floats around 18-20%. The real question is exactly what will it take for people to accept no more business as usual and do something instead of just whine periodically and then do a 180 the minute something else upsets them more.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 7:22am
#134
NUK_1 - Courage
What will it take?
Courage Nuk pure and simple, courage seems in short supply among those that have been brought up to depend on the government, something the government wanted all along....mindless people following the state, Big Brother.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 8:21am
#135
PTCO & NUK Poor Times?
I have been trying to figure out what you and the rest of the TEA drinkers really want to happen now!
I mean other than the President defeated in the next election.
A President being defeated simply means that we have a different President, as we always have.
Such ideas as cutting budgets 40%, fighting unwinnable wars, elimination of all regulations to industry and capitalism, good health care only for the lucky ones but not for laborers, every county furnish their own type of schools and financing (no state or federal help), except for Interstates, no roads and repairs from state or federal government, prayer in all schools (Christian only) and in all other gatherings, no one in any form of government who is not a Christian, voting and welfare rules made only by locals, no state or federal taxes except for a very minor amount and on everyone except capitalists, for use of the military and treaty signings will prevail!
Also-----we need a depression to get rid of the National Banks, Welfare, those with no money to live on, high interest rates for bond and annuity owners, autos, homes, credit cards (won't exist if banks gone), no controls whatsoever on hedge funds, leverages, mortgage packages, false advertising, and people smarter than others.
Our poor will jump the border and go to Mexico and South America.
We won't have to put up with people in our government who are other than descendents of the caucasian race. (mixtures during the slave era, if white looking, OK).
Everyone must take allegiance to American Principles, Judeo-Christian religion and morals, the flag, and Motherhood.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 9:55am
#136
Roundy, You Are Truly
a sage of the times! I have been trying to figure out what the group that must not be named wants, and you have compiled the list! Bravo--you deserve free Braves tickets to the next Phillies series! Check with Frank Wren or other PTC-dwelling member of the Braves organization! I have been digging in my backyard for Au to fashion coins for the coming meltdown, but no luck! I will be eating cake I guess!
Braves win last night, let's do it again!
Vote No on Motel Six for PTC!
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 11:01am
#137
NINJA
I left out a lot of stuff they want and are willing to destroy us to get!
You know, like all having open carrying magnum shooters strapped on to each side, and a kick-ass pair of hob-nailed boots.
Their t-shirt would say---"just try me."
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 11:36am
#138
Roundy
My fear is that what the no-tax Christian crowd actually wants is the Rapture, and they will do anything to get there! I think PTCO is a card-carrying member!
Vote No On Motel Six In PTC!
Will the Braves make a move?
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 10:42am
#139
Duplicate
*
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 10:41am
#140
Ninja - Thanks
for taking my suggestion in having a dialog with Roundabout, you both seem to have a lot in common. ;-)
Maybe you can go to the game together and get to know each other better?
I on the other hand will be planning for the inevitable while you and Roundy fiddle. Don't come to my house grasshopper.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 8:34am
#141
And roundabout just keeps....
rambling on.
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 3:57pm
#142
I agree, Jeff. Glen Beck's words were beyond filth.
Norway heard them. They have responded, and as an American, I am embarrassed that they think we may feel the same as this ignorant drunk. Shameful.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 6:55pm
#143
Yes Kevink
Yes, shameful. So bad that I expect Ann Coulter to write a book in his support soon.
Wed, 07/27/2011 - 9:03am
#144
Economics
Let us go back to voodoo economics as practiced by Reagan or tax cut and spend as practiced by W. I think not.
Now Clinton had great success with the budget, let's practice what he did.
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 7:15am
#145
What Clinton did worked for one simple reason
He was forced to compromise on his stupid healthcare and other social issues by a Republican controlled Congress. True, whoever replaces the Campaigner-in-Chief will be perceived as a savior, but it will actually be the Congresspeople sworn in January 2013 that will do the heavy lifting. Need a new Speaker at that time as well. Boehner is too soft on Democrats.
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 2:43pm
#146
Not really RWM
Clinton's budget, which raised taxes amidst wails and gnashing of teeth by the Republicans claiming it would destroy the economy, was passed without a single Republican vote. In fact, VP Gore had to go to the Senate to cast the tie breaking vote.
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 3:07pm
#147
Balanced Budget Act of 1997
Clinton's budget proposal was presented to a Republican controlled Congress for resolution. The bill passed with 270 votes (62%) ... 218 votes were Republican, 50 votes were Democrat. Votes against the bill (HR 2015) were 152 Democrat and 8 Republican.
Who voted against the balanced budget? Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), Cynthia McKinney (D-GA), Charles Rangel (D-NY), and Charles Schumer (D-NY).
President Clinton, with a Republican Congress, produced a budget surpluss for 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001. When Clinton left office, we still carried a 5.7 trillion dollar debt; but the surpluss would have eventually paid down that debt.
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 2:54pm
#148
Speaking of the debt mess....
....Would the following lend any credibility to what's going on in Washington?
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006
Just asking.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 10:02am
#149
Mike King Here's a way to fix Congress
Congressional Reform Act of 2011
1. No Tenure / No Pension.
A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.
2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people.. It may not be used for any other purpose.
3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.
4. Congress will no longer vote them selves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.
5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.
6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.
7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.
If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the message. Maybe it is time.
THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!!!!!
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 12:32pm
#150
Dondol, Number 4 is also not correct.
Congress doesn't vote itself a pay raise, it's automatic.
The only thing they vote on, if they feel like it, is whether or not to accept it and each member chooses for themselves.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 12:45pm
#151
Dondol & "Fixing Congress"
Obviously, many don't know that since 1984, all Federal Employees either hired or elected (yes, that includes Congresspeople) DO participate in the Socal Security System. That, and whatever they wind up with in their Thrift Savings Plan (401K-like plan) constitutes their retirement. And healthcare is NOT free! They pay a portion of the premium, just like many corporate and small businss employees. It's difficult to make smart recommendations on changing the system if you don't know the true facts of the current one! Nice try though.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 10:17am
#152
Great Plan!
But could we at least have a tar and feather party for those 535 currently serving to assure them that we're serious?
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:46pm
#153
Mike King: There will be silence
The supporters of Obama don't like to reflect back on anything he said while serving as a Senator or his voting record, especially this one issue where he voted against raising the debt limit and was very blunt about it.
The MSM generally has given him a free pass on this too and tried to make him into a statesman despite the fact that everyone from Obama to Reid to Boehner, Dem or Repub, is actually sinking even lower in the public's eye than before on their collective failures.
Change we can believe in turned into "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" about a week after Obama got elected. Despite the inbred stupidity of some Repubs and other kooks who had to howl about birth certificates/citizenship and other utter nonsense that actually gave Obama a lot of cover since he was being attacked by a bunch of idiots, that has passed and now he has to stand on his own record without the benefit of sympathy by being attacked by people that most in society consider a bunch of freaks.
Obama probably made a tactical political mistake in releasing his birth certificate in order to shut up the lunatic fringe. Now they are suddenly quieter and the focus is more on Obama instead of the crazies, and that's not so good for him.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 6:48pm
#154
Not at all Nuk
Obama did vote against the debt ceiling and Mike King posted his reason for doing so above:
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure..... America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better." - Obama
That is undeniably true. It was true in 2007 when he said it and it is true now. We had failed leadership then and we have failed leadership now. I agree with him. However, even though his analysis was correct, his voting against raising the debt limit was a mistake because Reagan was right too:
“Congress consistently brings the government to the edge of default before facing its responsibility... The United States has a special responsibility to itself and the world to meet its obligations.” - Reagan
Obama has been blessed with enemies so unhinged that no matter what he does, they always look astonishingly worse. And now, the TEAs in the House are about to allow him to pin the economy on them. He is going to wrap their extremist positions around the whole Republican Party and campaign on inheriting Bush's economy in the past and being the stalwart against the crazies taking over in the future.
The debt limit will be raised. Even if the suicide-bomber mentality of the House TEAs who are willing to bring lasting economic harm to the country prevails and no agreement is reached, Obama will just unilaterally raise the limit based on the 14th Amendment. Let the Supreme Court decide. How long will that take? Meanwhile, does anybody think banks won't accept and cash US government checks that are issued?
Oh, and those never raise taxes under any circumstances TEAs? They have now guaranteed that the Bush tax cuts will never be extended when they expire. Think any Dems are going to support them after this?
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 6:51pm
#155
JeffC - You
could be right on this, but you could be wrong as well.
I guess we'll all have to wait until 2012 to see what happens, until then we will watch both parties gather their financial forces to throw mud at an ever increasing rate.
Both parties will swing wildly to each extreme attempting to pick up special interest votes. The Democrats are a bit crippled by the fact that everyone will be watching to see how they fund the dole to their special interests in light of the big debt debate. The Republicans can't do much to pass legislation for their special interests either. It's kind of like a standoff.
Let's call it the battle for the independent vote. Neither the Democrats or the Republicans can muster enough special interests to pull the election either way. It will be the independent vote that will determine the outcome of the next election. The only question is which party has hurt themselves the most with this latest round of incompetency.
2012 will tell where the country will go over the next decade, fiscal realism or inspired socialist "vision". I am betting on fiscal realism as the age demographics move the population to being more and more risk adverse.
It is likely that President Obama will have enough money to buy the Presidency, the question is will the Democrats be able to get enough money to buy the Congress? I say it's unlikely given the current environment.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 7:35pm
#156
Hmmmm PTCO
Your analysis:
"2012 will tell where the country will go over the next decade, fiscal realism or inspired socialist "vision". I am betting on fiscal realism as the age demographics move the population to being more and more risk adverse."
seems counter-indicated by your premise.
When you say: "...as the age demographics move the population to being more and more risk adverse", you can only be referring to the population aging. But doesn't that make the bet lean toward the "inspired socialist vision", as surely an aging population will demand more from SSI, Medicare, etc.?
You are, of course, correct that my earlier conjecture may or may not be viable. However, it is my considered opinion that the statements made by the TEAs will be used to scare people about Social Security and Medicare, which will help the Ds to a much greater extent than cutting the government by 40% in the next few years helps the Rs.
Plus! Don't forget that these House Republicans have to produce a budget between now and the election.
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 1:56am
#157
JeffC, thoughts of the future
During this current round of ‘Debt Ceiling crisis’ I’m forced to concede that the democratic party plan holds the most chance of a ‘win’. Additionally they, the democrats, may benefit through the 2012 elections. But what happens when Obamanomics eventually fails; and it will? Why is everyone looking only at the short term? Don’t the democrats realize that after 2012 and or the 2016 elections the Democratic Party is doomed?
Contrary to popular kevink and/or JeffC speak, most Americans have given up on party affiliation as we’re all in it for the money now. Whichever party costs the less money will win. Special interest groups, along with unions, have already become pariahs of the public. Doe’s either party think ‘long term’ anymore?
Doe’s Obama and/or the Democrat party think this is the last time the US Govt. will have to come begging for a Debt ceiling increase? I’m thinking 2013 will be a good year for such.
Yes, the Republicans don’t currently have anyone to run against Obama in 2012. Unless Caribou Barbie and her ilk can come up with a real candidate the Republican Party is just screwed in 2012, After 2012 I would suggest you consider asking your dad to run again.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 9:40pm
#158
JeffC & Ninja
averse, you're correct Ninja, sorry for word miss on this one.
JeffC, perhaps your'e right about the risk factor. However, if this was the case why are there so many "old" people supporting the likes of the Teas?
There is another demographic that you are forgetting Jeff, that is the elderly are rich, not poor. Most have accumulated a lot of money over their lifetime. In the case of the boomers, the majority will inherit the largest sum of wealth from their parents than any generation in American history.
Thus, my premise that they will simply want to be left alone. They certainly won't want to be taxed more and more for services they don't use. It is apparent that they will want less out of government. Thus, the answer to the question about the "old" people in the Tea Party.
It's true that the Republicans will have to produce a budget, it is also true that the Senate will fight them tooth and nail. This rancor will continue right up until the election. It will be the independent that will decide who's to blame for the issues to be raised. I am guessing that the fiscal realists will come out of the woodwork. So long Democrats for at least a decade.
However, just as with your speculation, I could be wrong. We will just need to wait for 2012 to see how it all turns out.
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 8:54am
#159
PTCO, Once Again
your myopia is showing! Get thee to a LASIK clinic! It may be that most of the elderly at your Atlanta country club are wealthy, but there are many elderly that have nothing or next to nothing. Come on man! Reality awaits you! Follow Siddhartha's lead and venture beyond the confines of your walled compound!
Braves Fried The Fish Last Night On Uggla's 3-Run Homer!
Vote No On Motel Six In PTC!
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 10:48am
#160
Ninja & JeffC I don't
I don't play golf, and yes there are many elderly that have nothing this is true, but the point of this discussion is to speculate on why there are so many "old" people in the Tea Party and why this will have implications for the next election as it did in 2010.
My premise is that there is a very large cohort of wealthy elders that want to reduce the risk of having their money depleted by a government that provides nothing for them in return. Will they get SS? Sure they believe that that is their money anyway. The fact is most worked hard for their money, they planned ahead and in many cases they truly do care what happens to America in the future. My guess is they want to leave whatever they have left to their families and don't want the government seizing it when they die. There goes that family and personal responsibility thing again.
So, to return to this argument, the increasing rate of wealth creation among the elderly is undeniable, demographics show that not only are seniors accumulating wealth they are using the freedom their wealth gives them to volunteer at unprecedented rates. Thus, when they see their future and the future of they families threaten they "volunteer" for organizations like the TEA Party, why not they have the time and they are highly motivated by self-interest. Most studies that are funded by the government don't show this trend as it doesn't support a growth in government funded programs essential to the socialist agenda. Here's a study that questions earlier study methodologies: http://www.roiw.org/2006/2006-28.pdf
Since the senior population is increasing at an increasing rate and the "youth" generation is declining or at best maintaining it's numbers through immigration, you can easily speculate what the next several decades will look like politically. Both parties should take heed of these trends or lose the independent vote, remember these seniors influence a large segment of our society that is highly, educated, motivated, family, friends, small businesses and relatively wealthy.
Ninja, it is you that needs to snap out of it and try a big dose of reality, the gravy train is running out of steam as an entire, very large, population cohort moves from active middle age, to planning for their retirement. I don't think the majority of them want the gruel the government is serving. Look for much bigger rallies by the TEAS in the months ahead. Remember this is the generation that started the mass protest movements of the 1960's, or aren't you that old Ninja? Nah, I guess not, probably early 40's with some kids, not much money, and dependent in some way on the government dole. Better start planning an alternative lifestyle pal.
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 11:13am
#161
PTCO, As a Former Flower Child
you must be engaging in some of those bad habits I witnessed you and your draft-card-burning buddies engaging in back then! Or, perhaps you are just having flashbacks! What are the two biggest programs the elderly benefit from--SS and medicare! What are most seniors scared of--medical bills that would wipe out any savings intended to go to kids or grand kids! You think retirees are going to rise up and demand that medicare be dismantled? Toke again friend! BTW, I have a total of 23 kids in all three nations for which I have passports! Only half are on government support! Only 1 in the US and its territories, and that's in Puerto Rico, which doesn't count!
You refuse to slay your own dragons, so I have to do it for you!
I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now?
John Lennon
Let us not limit the time others have on earth just because our own is short.
Ninja Guy
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 11:36am
#162
Ninja & JeffC - wrong again
don't you get tried of being wrong Ninja? I guess I must have nailed your profile or you wouldn't be so glib.
You are right on SS and Medicare these are programs that pick up part of the cohort in question, but not all. The vast majority of seniors are wealthy Ninja and while they would like to see the benefits of both these programs, they are bright enough to know that neither are ultimately sustainable. So, back to my premise. You will see much bigger rallies by the TEAS in the future and they will have a significant impact on the future of the body politic in the future. You can believe in this until it is disproved and we will all see in 2012 whether my premise is correct. The gravy train is chugging to a stop, it may even back up! Better look for a lifestyle change pal because it's coming. Don't say I didn't forewarn you.
As far as limiting others time on earth, I am a peaceful person Ninja, you can ask my friends, both of them. The only way I would intentionally shorten another's time on earth is if they threaten my life or the life of my loved ones, reference the 2nd Amendment and laws concerning self-defense. This I am perfectly willing to do without regret or second thought.
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 11:55am
#163
PTCO, Just Like Faytette County
in ARC, I am a net donor, and I don't mind! Life is good and doomsday is not coming! Get out of the bomb shelter and enjoy the sunlight! Humans need vitamin D in non-pill form!
Braves get Michael Bourn from the Astros! Great move Frank Wren, who lives in PTC--not Palmetto!
Vote No On Motel Six in PTC!
Sun, 07/31/2011 - 12:11pm
#164
Ninja - Fayette County
I am happy you're happy Ninja, just keep ponying up til it hurts pal.
What amount seems just right for you? You know to pay for government that is "just about right"?
In your case I think you should donate say 95% to the government, that would make it fair for me, but let's let the government decide, you know those guys that are in perpetual re-election mode, let's see how much money they will take from you.
After all the rich and corporations pay little to no tax, so that just leave people like you Ninja, pay up pal.
Have you started that job search yet?
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 7:46pm
#167
PTCO and JeffC
First of all, its risk averse; NOT risk adverse. Second, JeffC is correct in that the aging of the population will tend to lean at least that demographic toward the inspired socialist vision, and that demographic is growing.
Braves Fry the Fish Tonight!
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 5:00pm
#168
MIKE
President Obama tried to raise enough income to pay the debt over a few years but the republicans want to do it NOW with Education, environment, FAA, medicare, health insurance, pensions, social security, and food stamp money!
The republicans, having reduced the federal income while fighting wars and allowing Wall Street to get rich and break us, not to mention 15 million unemployed, are still fighting wanting to pay the debt from the masses rather than capitalism!
There is only so much one President can do in 21/2 years to avoid Bush's depression, find unavailable jobs, and allow corporations to accumulate cash to further screw the masses.
The debt was made more so by the conservatives than by the liberals---they also voted for most of it over the years.
Taxes just weren't high enough to pay for it.
Salaries weren't high enough to keep many from over using credit cards and buying expensive homes!
I think the confidence in America is now shot for a long time by this TEA bluff, and there is no way they can get 40% budhet reduction, no tax increases, go through this fiasco every 6 months, and stop a depression now!
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 6:01pm
#169
Deadbeat Super Americans
Well America, are you happy with how the 2010 election turned out?
Remember those tea party meetings with naive, mostly senior citizens, deciding to read the Constitution for the first time (or at least skimming it) and deciding that everything in American History since 1789 was not true to the Constitution as they now understand it? Remember those innocent and naive tea party Americans listening to ultra right wing speakers like Herman Caine? Those were exciting times weren't they.
Limited Federal government was the answer. Just like during the Civil War.
Well now we know that the tea party representatives America elected are just a bunch of deadbeats, unwilling to pay for the obligations that America hss already voted for.
It is not enough for them to reduce Federal spending in the future; the tea party folks don't want to pay for bills that are now due.
It is clear that the tea party folks are too iresponsible to share in the governing of America.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 2:33pm
#170
I'm happy with the 2010 election results
Well America, are you happy with how the 2010 election turned out?
I sure am. With the total wipeout in the House of the Dems, the focus now isn't on furthering the terrible ideas of the Obama administration and progressives like Pelosi and instead on fiscal reform. Plus, since the TP found out that you can't just nominate any idiot like Angle, Miller or O'Donnell and expect to win no matter how poor the opposition is, maybe next year they field better candidates that have been a little more scrutinized.
The midterms in 2010 stopped Obama/Pelosi/Reid from making any further "progress" on their hot button issues and have put them on the defensive instead.
All across the country right now states are suddenly showing the backbone to stand up to labor unions and force reform. Even rock-solid Dem states with Dem governors are participating in meaningful reform and fiscal accountability for once. Love it myself.
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 10:25pm
#171
lion
"Well now we know that the tea party representatives America elected are just a bunch of deadbeats, unwilling to pay for the obligations that America has already voted for."
Would you please elaborate on those obligations that the TEA Party folks are unwilling to pay?
I didn't think so.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 3:34pm
#172
MIKE
I think right now there are abut 14 trillion plus that has been spent and owed!
Congress passed spending bills for all of it!
The TEA Party now doesn't want to pay honest debts except by cutting off all current spending---maybe even pensions!
I swear that I remember all of the hard scrabble groups call one kind of tea or another saying they were not a party---just someone to stop taxes!
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 6:28pm
#173
Lion - Well
Well....I don't know actually whether I am happy or not about this movement. They seem to be getting off in the weeds of social issues, instead of focusing on fiscal issues.
Just FYI, we didn't have limited federal government during the Civil War, we had a dictatorship and a repeal of many of the Constitutional guarantees that were protected for the states and the individuals. Or don't you read history?
Whether or not the tea party folks are irresponsible or not depends on the outcome, not the theoretical outcome. However, they have been duly elected so they are in fact a fact of life Lion.
It will be very interesting to see if President Obama has enough money to buy the Presidency in 2012. I am beginning to wonder given his most recent display of incompetence. The real question is who will make up the Congress following the 2012 election, fiscal realists or spendthrift "visionaries"? It really doesn't matter what party they are in.
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 7:21pm
#174
ptco
i read history.
I know it took the Federal government to make conservatives give up slavery. It took the Federal government to make conservatives give up segregation. It took the Federal government to give Americans a minimum wage and safer working conditions. And it took the Federal government to to give women and blacks the right to vote. Conservatives opposed all of these things.
And now conservatives are "rebelling" against the Federal government because it makes them drink clean water, breathe clean air, and conserve energy and on and on. Conservatives are angry because the Federal government provides Social Security, Medicare, etc.
America will thank President Obama for protecting us from the tea party extremists.
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 10:31pm
#175
lion
Should you substitute the word Democrat for conservative in your rant you might be correct for once in your life.
But that's not your intent, is it?
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 10:27pm
#176
lion - Keep
posting, you're just the kind of guy that we need to hear from in America.
1. It took an Army to subdue the states that seceded from the union, the Union states kept their slaves throughout the war, many of the Southern states, including some that seceded, kept their slaves throughout the war. That's history lion. Slavery was evil pure and simple and if it was right to attack those that left the Union to free the slaves then it was right for those Union states to immediately give up their slaves. They didn't for a reason, they freed the slaves for a reason following the war, you can go read some history and figure it out for yourself why they did this.
2. The minimum wage was a payoff for Union support (as it is today), the minimum wage keeps the poor poor. It feathers the nest of a limited number of people at the expense of those who would work for less. It drives up the cost of our domestic products, it is inflationary and ships jobs overseas where they have no unions. All to protect a special interest group. Look at our automobile industry and what the union helped do to these companies against foreign competition. That's history lion.
3. Safer working conditions were not union driven they were driven by the need to avoid re-training and improved productivity by private companies. It was in the capitalists interest to accept "safer working conditions" as a union "demand". The only people that benefit from Unions are the union bosses. Unions have never, I repeat, never saved one job anywhere. That's history lion
4. Segregation was evil, it violated the principles of the rights of man, it needed to be eliminated by law and justice. It was through the enforcement of law that segregation was ended in the south, it took a lot longer in the north, or are you not old enough to remember the riots in Boston? That's history lion.
5. If we want or need clean water, air, and clean energy then we should demand these through the protection of property rights and free markets. That's not history lion, that's the Constitution, which I suppose in a way is history.
Mr. Obama will not be able to "protect" us from the tea party as long as we have free and open elections. If their philosophy is supported by the voters then their representatives will be elected and they will demand what they demand out of government. That's called representative government lion. You can read about this idea in a history book, almost any history book dealing with our form of government.
You lion, are a conservative by definition. You want to keep things just the way they are, aka increasing the power of the federal government. You in someway are acting in your own self-interest. Aren't you lion? Just be honest with yourself, even if you can't be honest with us on this board.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 8:59am
#177
lion a conservative? Hardly
This Tea Party stuff is really amateurish. A true conservative giving important and politically correct advice to his son sounded like this: "My granddaddy used stone tools, my daddy used stone tools, I use stone tools, and dammit boy you're gonna use stone tools too".
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 2:12pm
#178
Carbon - You're a
conservative as well.
"Conservative - –adjective
1.disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change."
We have been on a socialist binge since 1913, I think people who want to keep things just the way they are, are conservatives by definition.
Now if you mean conservatives as we define them today, incorrectly, I might add. They are simply bent on keeping things from getting "worse" they are not for actually changing anything. However, they do like and insist in getting involve in personal decisions about how we live our lives.
Hope this clears up why I call you and lion conservatives, because you are no matter what camp you claim to be in.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 2:43pm
#179
Well shucks PTCO
I am a conservative, as the term applies to conservation. Otherwise I have to notify Cal that you are trying to hurt my feelings.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 2:53pm
#180
Carbon - Conserve
your own property then and leave other people to use their property the way they see fit, when it infringes your property rights take them to court, otherwise leave people alone to pursue happiness. See I am not trying to hurt your feelings.
Yes, just this morning Mr. Gingrey of GA said he loved the Speaker but he was going to vote NO on the Speaker's bill!
Of course this was to be expected of Gingrey since he votes NO on everything, except guns, and NO on anything that helps people in need.
He also is conniving enough to know that the Speaker's bill will not pass anywhere, anyway, so he has satisfied his voters!
He must have been a hellufadoctor!
The CNN morning lady asked Bachmann today why she was against a compromise on adding some taxes to help with the deficit. She said a poll showed the 64% did not want a tax increase for this.
The CNN lady said her poll was in April and that a very recent poll was just the opposite, 68% were for it to resolve the crisis!
Ms. Bachmann, harrumphed, stuttered, and changed the subject entirely.
She has no logic!
Also, Newt held up a T-shirt this morning touting his campaign and spoke of making goods in the USA again. A reporter asked him if the t-shirt wasn't made in a foreign country---Newt said he didn't know, but a "volunteer" had had the t-shirts done!
Velshi said this morning Newt would have to campaign naked with no electronic devices to use only American made!
He is another Bachmann! 50 years behind the times.