President Obama's Discussion - Trayvon Martin

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Cyclist
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Hey gang,

Here's the link for the Obama's discussion:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/19/remarks-president-...

The Christian Science Monitor noted that the DOJ was not going to pursue a case against Mr. Zimmerman so this discussion was necessary.

Thoughts / Discussion

Joe Kawfi
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obama is a Phony

He's not really a 'President'. He just tries to pretend he's one.

"Phony scandals"? Tell the loved ones of the dead American Heroes of Benghazi that those men were a "phony scandal". obama, the lying little piece of crap, should try saying it to their families faces. He's nothing but a piece of talking rat feces.

His speech writers must be smoking crack if they can so callously dismiss Benghazi, fast and furious, IRS, NSA and only God knows what else the scumbag obama has done that we don't know about.

Davids mom
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Quote:

And for those who resist that idea that we should think about something like these "stand your ground" laws, I'd just ask people , consider, if Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk? And do we actually think that he would have been justified in shooting Mr. Zimmerman who had followed him in a car because he felt threatened? And if the answer to that question is at least ambiguous, then it seems to me that we might want to examine those kinds of laws.

There is discussion regarding these'types' of laws and the instructions that are being given to jurors. There is a woman serving 20 years because she secured a gun and shot it to defend herself after her husband tried to strangle her ( He had been convicted of spousal abuse before). She didn't kill him of injure him. She stood her ground.

I see I'm not the only one who reads the Christian Science Monitor!

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Davids mom - what ifs and SYG

It's all about the seriousness of the threat. If Zimmerman, as Martin was beating the heck out of him, felt his his life was in danger than the outcome was justifiable. But you know what, as several have noted, that tragic outcome would have been justifiable in states without SYG.

I don't know enough about the case concerning the woman to comment.

Davids mom
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Another point of view Cyclist
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It's all about the seriousness of the threat. If Zimmerman, as Martin was beating the heck out of him, felt his his life was in danger than the outcome was justifiable. But you know what, as several have noted, that tragic outcome would have been justifiable in states without SYG.

Zimmerman/Trayvon was based on 'self defense' and Zimmerman's supposedly inability to push Trayvon off of him. - and then Lo and behold Zimmerman has the strength to save others a year later. He doesn't sound like a wimp to me. He used a gun to save his life on an unarmed child that his suspicions had convicted of an uncommitted crime. This is what many view as unacceptable, including some jurors. Many are not asking for vengeance - just a clarification on the interpretation and implementation of the law. If Trayvon had lived, and we heard first hand of his fear of this stranger who was following him, how would the law be implemented?

Cyclist
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DM - That point of view.....

did not prevail in court.

Davids mom
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Cyclist

It couldn't because of the interpretation of the law. The civil discussion regarding the law is needed - in application to all citizens

Cyclist
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Davids mom - Interpretation of the law

As we all know, there were no witnesses of the initial confrontation. Physical injuries to GZ suggests that an altercation occurred. This was sufficient enough for the local Sanford authorities not to press charges. Of course, that was not palatable to the masses so a "show" trail was held and the result more or less exonerated the local Sanford authorities.

What other Interpretation is there?

We in the cycling community see this. A motorist strikes and kills a cyclist and claims that the cyclist swerved in front of them. Since the cyclist is dead his/her story cannot be shared and local authorities close the case. As Walter Cronkite used to say "and that's the way it is". The conga lines keeps on going.

AtHomeGym
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Cyclist & Witnesses

No, but listen to this: During his interrogation at the Police Station, one of the Detectives told Zimmerman "The whole incident was captured on surveillance video"---to which Zimmerman instantly replied "ThankGod"! The Detective was bluffing in order to convince Zimmerman there was no need to lie about details---but Zimmerman didn't know that! Seen that reported in the MSM? Don't think so.

Davids mom
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It came out in the trial - AHG

That Zimmerman, as NW coordinator, was aware that that camera was not functioning. It's in the trial record. This will be studied by law students for years to come.

OLDNCR
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SYG is a good law
Quote:

It couldn't because of the interpretation of the law. The civil discussion regarding the law is needed - in application to all citizens

Stand your ground is a good law that was not used in the Martin case. It's really not that complicated if you have half a brain and WANT to understand it. First stand your ground allows you to stand your ground. Not advance toward the fight. Second you can not be the instigator of the fight and claim SYG. Third you have to have a reasonable fear for your life or serious injury to be allowed to use deadly force.

http://nhregister.com/articles/2013/07/20/news/new_haven/doc51eb2cf8d200...

Too bad this man didn't have a gun. Oh but if he had the media/sharpton/jackson/you would have crucified him for using it against one of these little angels

OLDNCR
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Cheap Shot DM
Quote:

Zimmerman/Trayvon was based on 'self defense' and Zimmerman's supposedly inability to push Trayvon off of him. - and then Lo and behold Zimmerman has the strength to save others a year later.

What a cheap shot, even for you. So how many people were on Zimmerman beating his head into the sidewalk while he attempted to help these people? And why are the people that he helped afraid to be identified? Because of a thug culture that many blacks embrace that is why!! Zimmerman took a huge risk just by stopping to help. He should be applauded for that at least.

suggarfoot
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OLDNCR

You are so right. It was a cheap shot indeed, but DM never misses one.

And right again about the thug culture...people are afraid of them and the back lash is people are arming themselves. There will be more por lil Trayvons who get shot when they assume their next victim is unarmed.

Davids mom
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Oldncr

We have to stay out of the trap of judging all blacks by a thug culture and all whites by a ' they are always ethical and correct culture'. Individual character and actions should be the judge of all Americans. The media reports and racist attitudes that are found among most Americans 50 and above make fair judgement and implementation of law difficult. There are blacks who fear whites just as much as some whites fear blacks. Cheap shots sometimes expose another point of view that some don't even consider. If it matters, I did commend Zimmerman for his efforts - just sharing thoughts that won't be shared with you in a face to face discussion because of the reaction which you just displayed. I know that there are many whites who mourn the tragedy and the death of Trayvon and the situation that the Zimmerman family is in. There are many blacks who feel the same way. Zimmerman has been found not guilty under the law of self defense. It doesn't take a law degree to realize that Zimmerman is not innocent of killing Trayvon. If the guidelines of Neighborhood Watch had been followed, we would not be having this discussion. Those are the facts in this case. To some participating in this blog, Trayvon has been convicted of his own murder. I'm grateful for the peace and tranquility that is found in my community among diverse citizens.
We can express ourselves honestly with respect and civility.

OLDNCR
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Can we DM?
Quote:

We can express ourselves honestly with respect and civility.

We can and we should. But when you play little word games to make your point it becomes harder. For example I said:

Quote:

And why are the people that he helped afraid to be identified? Because of a thug culture that many blacks embrace that is why!!

Doing your best MSNBC imitation you adjust my words to be:

Quote:

We have to stay out of the trap of judging all blacks by a thug culture and all whites by a ' they are always ethical and correct culture'.

I never said all blacks are thugs. Never said all whites are ethical. In fact I never said anything about whites. Those are your words. And they provide an insight into your mind.

Davids mom
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Oldncr

Many blacks? You're pretty good at the word game yourself. Most blacks that you will come in contact don't embrace thug culture. Most whites who drive pick-ups will not harm me or mine - but as a child, I was not taught that. No need to be defensive and challenge my opinion. I don't challenge yours, and understand it. There are different view points in this country, and the Suggarfoot's of our society would have us shooting each other daily. Fortunately, they are in the minority and Fayette County is at peace.

Quote:

Those are your words. And they provide an insight into your mind.

One reads into ones words what they perceive. To deny that we all have some feelings/fears based on race is folly. The younger generation will not have our baggage.

OLDNCR
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Then you explain it for me DM

I said what I meant. Many blacks especially young blacks do embrace a thug culture. I never said most. But there are enough to cause someone fear for accepting help from someone that just happened to be there when needed. Maybe you can explain to me why an accident victim that just accepted help from Zimmerman should have any fear?

Davids mom
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Oldncr

The sad truth oldncr is that there are 'many' blacks who feel the same about some whites whose demeanor, dress, hair style, tattoos make them fearful. Sad commentary on a certain age group of Americans. Yes, there are some young people that I fear - of all colors. There are some men and women that I fear also, regardless of their color. What people of color have resented in this discussion is the assumption that blacks are 'mostly' thugs, - that this is our 'culture'. There is a culture of poverty, poor education, lack of home training that affects people of all colors. I shared an experience that I had at SAMs Club. A white teenager approached me to sell something as I was leaving. A mature white woman came up yo me and advised me to watch my purse. No 'race' involved. Just 'mature' women watching out for one another. I see more of that type of action in Fayette County than what Suggarfoot is advocating - arm yourselves and get 'them' before 'they' get you. You will read into this whatever- but I'm not speaking for all 'black' people - just expressing my point of view. Why do we as Americans have these fears? I'm sure each person coukd give their own unique reason.

Joe Kawfi
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No baggage?
Davids mom
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This is very disturbing

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/15019562-gunpowder-resident-fo...

There are some adults with problems. This will be another trial to watch here in Georgia. A child died. A horrible, horrible tragedy - but will we know what really happened?

But these miscreants throughout our country do not represent an entire 'race'. Not all white people are Joe Kawfi's or the infamous Suggarfoot - and not all black female grandmothers are Davids Mom. Stop the broad brush approach, and a civil discussion may be able to continue.

Joe Kawfi
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DM

When colored people stop committing crimes at 10 times the rate of whites, the get back to me. Until then, up yours, you piece of trash skeezer.

rolling stone
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Cal

Is Joe Kawfi exempt from the Terms of Use of this website?

PTC Observer
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Rolling

Seems off the scale to me too.

RKS
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Hey Cal, do you read Joe Kawfi's comments?
rolling stone wrote:

Is Joe Kawfi exempt from the Terms of Use of this website?

I am pretty fed up with Joe's vulgar words and am thinking it is time to make a phone call to the paper. Things like this said are surely against the rules.

Joe Kawfi
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Obamacare Call Center Will Not Offer Benefits to Employees

One branch of that call center will be located in California’s Contra Costa County, where, reportedly, 7,000 people applied for the 204 jobs. According to the Contra Costa Times, however, “about half the jobs are part-time, with no health benefits — a stinging disappointment to workers and local politicians who believed the positions would be full-time.” The county supervisor, Karen Mitchoff, called the hiring process “a comedy of errors” and said she “never dreamed [the jobs] would be part-time.”

Obamacare Call Center Will Not Offer Healthcare Benefits to Employees

RKS
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Joe Kawfi
Joe Kawfi wrote:

When colored people stop committing crimes at 10 times the rate of whites, the get back to me. Until then, up yours, you piece of trash skeezer.

Have you read the rules on this site lately? Here they are:

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Note item #1.

suggarfoot
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in DM's eyes ok to kill whitie

but bad bad to kill Trayvon cause he was black.

Look the deal is this. He used the concrete sidewalk as a weapon and beat Zimmerman's head bloody. That is a FACT!

He wasn't afraid of Zimmerman, he ATTACKED him! He was a 17 year old punk that had the misfortune of assuming Zimmerman was unarmed. (maybe the purple drank had something to do with that bad judgement?)

The whole thing is a charade from start to finish. They fought to keep Trayvon's background out of court. That is a FACT! Why? Not cause he was some little angel. He had been expelled from school 4 times since the 1st of the year. A bong, screw driver and woman jewelry, were supposedly found along with the empty pot bag. Not learning material. Mine, and all my friend's kids, have NEVER been expelled. And the senior year? They don't do that for nothing.

Another FACT you ignore is this picture painted of Trayvon's family?, the woman who raised him for 15 years (I would think of her as his Mom myself) was left out of the picture. His Daddy divorced her, the only Mother he knew and he was sent back to live with his bio mother so as not to be in daddy's way as he explored other pastures. Bio mother sent him to live with HER brother and then back to dad when kicked out of school again. No good parenting skills going on there with bio mother in my eyes.

Bio mother and newly single dad need to look at themselves as part of the problem. Bio Mom didn't even know what was his favorite food.

Now back to the dead whites that it is ok to kill. Why are you not exploring why the 14 and 17 yr old blacks killed the white Brunswick toddler when the mother had no money to give them? They tried to hold her up on the street in daylight and when she stated she was poor and had no money, they shot her baby in the face right in front of her. Oh by the way, he didn't die right away. Not that you are Sharpton would ever care.

If you read the blogs where CNN won't give up the BS about pour lil ol Trayvon...Whitie is writing in and whitie is mad. You and your kind are the VERY REASON for stand your ground laws. I don't feel sorry for you and I don't feel sorry for Trayvon.

Trayvon caused it and if Zimmerman hadn't fought back, I don't think there is doubt in anyone's mind he would have killed Zimmerman. The problem in your mind and people like you...is ...that would be ok cause lil Trayvon,, gansta would still be alive.

AtHomeGym
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Cyclist & 'what ifs'

Certainly Miss "I don't read cursive" didn't help when she planted the idea in TM's head that GZ was most likely a sexual predator.

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Only Someone Attacking Someone Else Should Fear Stand Your Groun

Its intersting that only the black community seems to have an issue with Stand Your Ground. I know that this law did not apply in the Zimmerman trial, that was simple self defense, and now of course the black race baiters are even questioning our rights to do that. It's simple, if you don't want to be harmed or killed by someone else's exercise of their right to self defense or to stand their ground, DON'T ATTACK THEM. Is that so hard? Is that something a particular group can't hold themselve's accountable for? Seriously, in this day & age does anyone think its a good idea to go around attacking others? If you do, I don't give you long to live no matter what race you are.

Davids mom
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Not hard to understand at all. If my son was being followed by a man in a SUV, and then the man got out of his car to follow him, he probably wouldn't have gone home where his younger brother was in case this was one of those perverts that scare any community. There is/was no witness to who attacked first, and inconsistencies in Zimmermans' account. (Where were those bushes near the sidewalk where he claimed he first saw Trayvon in the video interview?). Just sharing other points of view, not held only by some blacks, but also some of the jurors. Justice is being served - Zimmerman is not 'free'. Hopefully teenagers and NW personnel will learn from this tragedy. The black community is not the only community that has an issue with the implementation and interpretation of self defense and stand your ground. The legal community wants further clarification also.

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Davids Mom

I had my share of possible run-ins / misunderstandings in my youth. And you know what, I never found it necessary to jump on someone, straddle them, and go to town on their face & head mixed martial arts style! That's just fact. I was taught fighting was a last resort. We taught our kids the same, protect yourself when you have no choice including a situation where my son was being pursued by an African American bully in middle school. When that same boy cornered him on the bleachers my son punched him in the face and walked away. Is this what 17 year old Trayvon did? The facts say no. When you get in a fight in the middle of the night, or anywhere you're unlikely to have someone step in to break it up, anything including death can happen. That's the way it is, even more now than when I grew up. Bad kids had knives, chains, etc. when I was a teen. Those can kill you. Today's punks more often than not have guns. If I was patrolling a neighborhood like Zimmerman was, I'd be armed. Not to be could be suicide. Attacking your follower was only one option Trayvon had that night and as it turns out probably the worst choice. What had his parents taught him about fighting? I'm not saying a single race is 100% responsible for all violence, but just like Muslim leaders who stay quiet when radicals in their religion are slaying innocents, African Americans who deny or attempt to explain away issues within their community are part of the problem, not the solution.

Davids mom
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Roadrunner

No doubt bad decisions were made that night by both Zimmerman and Trayvon. The NW guidelines state quite clearly no weapons; wait for the police; etc. And believe me, many black parents are encouraging their young men not to wear hoodies - even in the rain. However - hoodies are selling off the shelves and being worn by the majority of young people regardless of color. This assumption that 'blacks' are silent in any community regarding fighting, gang activities, etc., shows a great communication gap between Americans. Most people of color understand the attitude of some whites - understanding does not always mean agreement . In this discussion, one with a different point of view is wrong according to some. Interesting.

Roadrunner
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Davids Mom

I totally agree mistakes were made on both sides of this tragedy. As for hoodies, I have a bright red UGA one in my closet that I almost never wear but wouldn't think twice about wearing it. As far as my assumption, I'm sure many responsible parents speak out against violence, drugs, teenage pregnancies, etc. but what I don't see is African American's supposed leaders; Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and their like ever say its not some other groups fault for their communities ills. It's ALWAYS someone elses fault. This lack of personal responsibiity is not unique to African Americans, I see this in a lot of aspects of modern culture. I'm owed health insurance, I'm owed a good paying job, I'm owed the better things in life. And if they don't have this it must be because someone else is holding them down, keeping all the wealth to themselves, etc. I realize these 'leaders' don't speak for every member of your race any more than the KKK speaks for mine, but it's still up to the rest of us to set the record straight. If its wrong its wrong no matter how inconvenient the facts are. I respect your position and opinions and appreciate the civil discourse. Take care.

Davids mom
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Roadrunner
Quote:

African American's supposed leaders; Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and their like ever say its not some other groups fault for their communities ills. It's ALWAYS someone elses fault. This lack of personal responsibiity is not unique to African Americans,

Supposed leaders. These gentlemen have been given the title of leaders by the main media. They are respected for the work they have done and are doing for our communities - but they are not 'considered' by many African Americans to be called their 'leader'. African Americans are, as you pointed out, like many other Americans in this country. We respect 'family' , honesty, intelligence, accomplishment, skill. When speaking the truth, we hope the supposed leaders will be heard. We also listen to Bill Cosby, and the image he portrays; Ben Carson and his accomplishments; and of course, our President and his family. There are community leaders who have great influence on many communities that the press never mention. Believe me, there are many organizations who work constantly to correct the wrongs in our community that are not caused by anyone but US. (And as always, there are successful people of all hues who work with us to achieve success - just as we work along side other citizens to correct wrongs in American society.). Supposed leaders? If they irritate you - ignore them! I'm sure in your experience there are other people of color who don't prove to be an irritant. I never listen to David Duke, and he was very visible in California. Thanks also to you and your civility in sharing your opinion. Much appreciated!! (And I'm blessed to know there are more like you than those who find it difficult or unpopular to be civil. It's not always easy to reply with civility - Lord knows I've slipped more than once or twice! :-)

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Davids Mom

I would bet we have far more in common than different. I also suspect we could be great friends in spite of our differences. One of my favorite coworkers could not be more liberal, yet we respect eachother enough to let the other talk about his beliefs without assigning any malicious intent. I enjoy a good honest debate, it keeps us centered and makes us defend our positions with an openness to possibly learning something new. Sorry that you seem to be outnumbered here, but you seem to handle it fairly well! Be well.

S. Lindsey
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Cy... No case can be made against Zimmerman

There is an old cravat in criminal or civil cases... It is called "Clean Hands".

When one comes to trial you have to have "Clean Hands", in other words... you have to be innocent of crimes yourself.

As an example...let's say I punch out an 80 year old woman...

Now on the face of it I have committed an Assault. So I am arrested and booked. At trial, however, it is brought to evidence that the 80 year old woman had a baseball bat and had struck me several times.

Now that goes toward self-defense. Some would say that striking that woman who only had a bat would be excessive force, but what if she had a knife, sword or even a gun?

Now applying that concept to the Trayvon/Zimmerman fiasco... The only way the Feds could present a case with even a chance of winning was if Trayvon came to the trial with "Clean Hands"...btw The State/Government would represent Trayvon obviously.

The FACTS in the case clearly showed that Trayvon struck first... That means he committed an assault. He had a choice to walk away or confront Zimmerman, he chose to confront and then attack.

That means, there can be no Federal case, Civil Rights or otherwise.

The Bar is set intentionally high for a reason it is to prevent activist Judiciary or politicians from using the system to persecute Citizens who become let’s say targets of the media for whatever reason.

Should Holder attempt to bring charges, no panel of Judges would find enough evidence to allow a trial…and even if they did no way would it pass through to a conviction.

So they really have no choice. They have literally painted themselves into the old proverbial corner.

Satisfy the Race Baiters and poverty pimps by trying to charge Zimmerman and then failing or claim that “the Law” is defective and would not allow them to do so…

We have already heard many say that “the Law” needs to be changed or modified etc…

What Law? Stand your ground? Wasn’t used and is not the issue. Besides do they really think that going back to the bad old days of having to give up your home to an intruder is the answer?

That’s right boys and girls, Repealing Stand your Ground aka The Castle Law would mean if you have an exit from your house YOU MUST GIVE YOUR HOME TO THE INTRUDER. You may not use deadly force to protect your family.

On another note FBI crime stats and Court documents show that while Blacks make up approx 18% of the population they use and are beneiftted by SYG laws 88% of all defenses using SYG in America.

So are they being disingenuous or what?

We can’t have a CIVIL discussion, as long as, Dinos like Jackson and Sharpton run from TV Camera to TV Camera to stir up the masses over supposed “injustices” ala Tawana Brawley and Duke LaCross Players…

Cyclist
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S. Lindsey - Holder and the NAACP

After his speech to the NAACP, I too see a "painted corner" on the horizon.

meanoldconservatives
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Speaking of Eric Holder.....

Apparently he is destined for bigger things. A friend sent me an email yesterday that showed a bumper sticker you can purchase:

2016 Democratic Dream Ticket: Weiner-Holder

Google it. They have a couple of different choices available.

Roadrunner
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OK, That's Funny!!

You are talking about two candidates there, right? Not just one?

Davids mom
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Civil discussions
Quote:

We can’t have a CIVIL discussion, as long as, Dinos like Jackson and Sharpton run from TV Camera to TV Camera to stir up the masses over supposed “injustices” ala Tawana Brawley and Duke LaCross Players…

There are many civil discussions going on throughout the country. (And the opinions of many are being heard and understood, without being denigrated .)

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