The 2011 Citizen Blog Inflation Prediction Challenge

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Chris P. Bacon
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Here is a chance to go "on record" with your prediction for inflation in the United States for the year 2011.

Simply reply to this thread with your prediction of the percentage of overall inflation increase you believe will occur in the United States for the period January 1, 2011 to December 31, 2011.

Closest prediction without going over will be declared the winner. Preliminary results should be available in January 2012, the government typically releases "final" results around March 2012.

The ONLY percentage used in this contest will be the OVERALL inflation percentage as determined by the United States Government's Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics. ONLY 2011 data will apply.

Inflation in other countries will not count. Non-BLS inflation numbers will not count. Component inflation (food, commodity) will not count. ONLY OVERALL inflation.

Here's is YOUR chance for glory. I'll post year-to-date results at the beginning of each quarter as well.

Make sure you get your entry in before January 1st, 2011.

My prediction for overall inflation in the United States for the calendar year 2011 is 2.8% (two point eight percent)

Adult predictions:

  1. swac 1%
  2. Ninja Guy 1.45%
  3. Hutch866 2.5%
  4. Nuk_1 2.7%
  5. Chris P. Bacon 2.8%
  6. Doug 3%
  7. Cyclist 3%
  8. Mike King 3.18%
  9. Davids Mom 3.7%
  10. T-Man 4.7%
  11. Robert W. Morgan 5.6%
  12. Dawn69 9.5%
  13. Mudcat 12.75%
  14. Georgia Patriot 13%

..
Kiddie and Koward Korner:

  1. ObserverofU 4.00% "plus CPI"
  2. PTC Observer "miscellaneous whining"
  3. Courthouse Rules "1 to 10%"
  4. Spyglass "potato"

mudcat
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You are not even close - it will be over 12%

If you are talking annual inflation in 2011, I'm going with 12.75%. It was at least that after Carter and this adimistration is more screwed up than Jimmy's ever was. Difference being the Republican control in 2011 will keep it from 20%.

Ninja Guy
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Core Inflation Forecast

My forecast for core inflation is: 1.45%

Chris P. Bacon
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Calling GP, OofU, PTCO, AHG...heck, even Hutch!

It's hero time boys!
Be Brave and post your predictions for overall inflation in 2011 in this thread!

PTC Observer
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Bacon Inflation

Why do you think we could predict inflation any better than the FED? They say inflation is going to be 2% next year.

Inflation begins when corporations downsize their products by one or two unnoticeable units, for example ounces. They will do this to capture increased cost at the same price as the older larger products. We see this today in everything we buy, like toilet paper, candy, soap, etc. They will keep doing this until they can’t pass on their increased costs this way, then they will increase unit cost. We are in this phase of inflation today (unit measure inflation). Next phase will begin as an avalanche of price increases that will be lead by major brands like P&G, all others will follow.

Core inflation is another interesting metric invention of the government, like we don’t spend money on energy or food. These two categories supposedly are too volatile to be included in “inflation”. However the government also knows that these two categories are also likely to be harbingers of future inflation. How are your food prices doing these days? How about gasoline?

Problem is everyone is a little shortsighted on inflation; it is not a year to year phenomena. When price/cost inflation begins it will be with us for a decade or more, and no one not even the FED can predict when it will start. But when it does start hold on to your harness because it will be a wild ride. In China this has already started and I have business friends there that come to the US without suitcases, buy them here, to fill them up with our “cheap” goods. This includes clothing made in China; go figure.

Have fun with your inflation prediction thing, before the fun really begins.

Chris P. Bacon
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Blah blah blah

Petey C, I'll make this very simple for you: Nut up or shut up.

Nobody cares about your windy babble. Spare us your lectures.

This is thread for adults to make predictions.

Make your prediction or be a wuss.

PTC Observer
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Bacon, Go out

and play, wear your shoes this time.

Chris P. Bacon
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When you send your wife flowers...

When you send your wife flowers, do you always send pansies so she'll know they're from you?

Observerofu
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Oh you are so funny old man

I guess this is the only way you can get people to comment on any of your topics.

Heck even Davidsmom gets better traffic than you.

Must be hard being old and irrelevant at the same time.

PTC Observer
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Observerofu

I think he's cute, naive but cute.

Playing his silly games, like it actually means something.

How about this let's predict what Obama will do when he's thrown out of office in 2012?

I guess he will move to Hollywood where he belongs, California for sure.

Observerofu
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PTC-I think Big O might go to

Venezuela. He is after all big buddies with Chavez.

btw-on the bacon thing. I just love to antagonize it.

Every time it devolves into insults I know I am winning.

PTC Observer
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Observerofu - On Bacon

I hadn't thought of that, he clearly is not alone in his beliefs. How does this fantasy continue in light of the reality we see around us and the past failure of the socialist system over and over again? Even Castro is now having second thoughts.

Bacon is amusing at best, but the left continues to pray on our weaknesses, separating us from one another, race, gender, age. They create their own special interests by division. Fear and "social justice" is their central catalyst. Their only way to "win" is through government force and intimidation.

Bacon's personal attacks on his opponents are simply his way of defending the indefensible. He has no cogent argument for any of his positions. He is a dupe of the socialist elite.

NUK_1
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The Left is hardly alone in that regard

Sometimes I wonder if the Right could ever win an election unless they resort to total hypocrisy, fear-mongering, and demonizing everyone else as Satan.

The Right has shown a continual failure with their very contemptible concept that voters HATE of "we'll win saying this and once in office will do the opposite" and the biggest plus on their side right now is that they have been out of power for a while and people don't like who is in power or the Prez.

Until the TP(here's their chance) and the Repubs can prove something besides a whole lot of BS after getting elected, I'm not going to get too far down on the lefties for doing the same crap. One thing about the far-left is that you generally know where they stand on certain issues as opposed to the Right/Repubs who talk a big game and govern like just another bunch of swine heading for feeding time. When the Repubs get in power again and DON'T immediately look for every way they can take away civil liberties OR grow government to record-levels as they have proven again and again they love to do, I remain unconvinced.

PTC Observer
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NuK-1

You're mistaken, I consider the Republicans to be left.

PTC Observer
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Bacon, What makes you think

that I am married?

Cyclist
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Bacon's Inflation Predication Challenge

Hey gang,

Has anyone seen or know of Bacon's whereabouts?

Ninja Guy
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I Think Bacon Got Fried

for using prohibited language.

S. Lindsey
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Who Won?
Robert W. Morgan
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David's mom won with 3.7%

If you accept the 3.8% number in some publications.
Contact Bacon for the keys to your brand new Chevy Volt - be sure to get a fire extinguisher or 2.

S. Lindsey
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I mean real numbers

not the Governments messaged ones. Energy and Food included.

Ninja Guy
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Inflation Statistics for Psychotics

And Mr. Slindsey, pray tell where would we get figures that you would consider 'REAL'? The BRL puts out inflation numbers for total inflation and inflation sans (that means without in French) food and energy, which I so graciously provided to you and others in a neat cut-and-past job just today. Perhaps we should slice open a freshly shot deer and divine the numbers from its entrails while saying the Pledge of Allegiance wearing full camo! Or perhaps we can find real numbers in the rings of certain trees!

Also, I never got a chance to thank you for saving us for those Occupy people up in Atlanta! Merci Beaucoup!

I think JPP will sack Matty Ice three times--how about you?

PTC Observer
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Ninja - I am surprised

that a financially astute student like you would actually believe government statistics.

Here you go, sign up and maybe you can anticipate what will happen next and make some money. You can thank me later, or not.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

Mike King
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Chrispy

rate of inflation: 3.18%

Courthouserules
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Bacon

Voting on this number is like voting on how much longer Mike Vick will play before he gets hurt, as usual. Like Deon also.

OK. I'll vote : 1%-10% range. (providing a private company does the calculating).

I would rather vote when ALL soldiers are out of Iraq and Afghanistan, not in Iran or North Korea, or Syria, and all at home! 0% ever.

Observerofu
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4% plus CPI

At years end 2011

Robert W. Morgan
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5.6%

5.6% inflation for 2011. What do I win?

Cyclist
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Morgan

You'll get the standard "Citizen" prize package. One year free subscription to The Citizen with free delivery to your driveway.

Chris P. Bacon
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That won't fly

If you want to play, pick a number, period. No weaseling allowed. No caveats. No "plus CPI".

This thread is for people who aren't afraid to go on record with their predictions. Start your own thread for wuss caveat predictions if you want to throw in your "but..but..." stuff.

Don't be afraid....we won't laugh at your prediction too much on Jan 1, 2012...

Observerofu
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What like your prediction on how the democrats would win

the house?

I gave it you don't like it tough.

Georgia Patriot
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OK

I'll play... 13% -GP

hutch866
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inflation

2.5%

swac
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Inflation?

Deflation may be here but I,ll go for 1%

NUK_1
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2.7%

.....

Cyclist
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OK Bacon, I'll play

3.0%. One percentage point higher than "the" forecast due to inflationary factors of higher oil prices and the damn federal budget mess.

Those that forecast above 5% are a bit premature. But, they will have their day in the sun.

Cyclist
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Gasoline and Inflation

From the New York Post.

The average price of gasoline in the US rose to $3.052 Monday, its highest level since October 2008, according to data released by the Department of Energy.

For the week ended December 28, the West Coast was the most expensive region to buy gasoline, with a cost of $3.219 a gallon. California led all states in gasoline prices with $3.287 a gallon, according to the data.

The figures mark a seven-cent increase in national prices from the prior week, as the price of oil swelled in recent days to more than $90 a barrel.

The statistics were released on the same day the former president of Shell Oil said that Americans will have to pay $5 a gallon for gasoline by 2012, due to higher global demand and tighter supplies.

Appearing on Platts Energy Week, John Hofmeister also predicted little or no new drilling in deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico for the next two years, as Washington continues to respond to the BP oil spill with tighter regulation of the oil industry.

"If we stay on our current course, within a decade we're into energy shortages in this country big time," said Hofmeister, who retired from Shell in 2008 and now heads a grass-roots group called Citizens for Affordable Energy.

So if gasoline and other petroleum products see a 40% cost increase, the CPI will rise. Perhaps those that forecast above a 5% CPI will win.

Observerofu
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No No No haven't you heard there is no inflation

bacon and Nuk says so.

Chris P. Bacon
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Still waiting for your prediction!

We're still waiting for you to summon enough testicular fortitude to go on record with your prediction.

We recognize that the rule about "no weasel caveats in your prediction" will make it especially hard for a spineless coward such as yourself.

It's okay if you can't summon up enough courage, though. I made a speshul area (kiddie and koward korner) just for wussies like you.

Observerofu
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Summon this

See link for all your needs.

http://www.thecitizen.com/node/5259#comment-20587

See comment #12

Evil Elvis
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Sorry ...

Core CPI does not include energy and food.

PTC Observer
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Elvis - core

Oh that's right we don't pay for energy or food, so the government says we can't include it in inflation.

Let's not ignore reality please.

No one can predict inflation in a state run economy, including the state.

Cyclist
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The Fed faces BIG decision on inflation

It seems that things might change on the inflation front:

One voting member, Richard Fisher, president of the Fed bank in Dallas, recently warned that the U.S. economy could face the same hyperinflation as did Germany's Weimar Republic after World War I, when a wheelbarrow full of marks couldn't buy a newspaper.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-economy-inflation-20110426,0,64916...

Observerofu
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QE2 ends June 31st

and once it does the Fed either has to do a QE3 or start facing financial reality that an economic Armageddon is right around the corner.

Guess which they will choose?

Georgia Patriot
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QE....4,5,...7,8,9

Riddle me this...if a currency collapsed and no one in congress was listening, would there still be soup lines? There is a stiff breeze blowing directly on our financial house of cards. Sure the unconstitutional FED will print more, what else can they do, they are strictly a one-trick pony! More dollars hunting for fewer goods, wonder what that brings? Next thing will be to exclude anything you purchase from the CPI, no inflation here folks, just move along, pay no attention to the Bernake behind the curtain-LOL. Wake up America! -GP

Observerofu
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QE3, 4 and 5 will guarantee Wiemar moment

and will force an economic collapse. But the Fed is now hooked on the Heroin of printing so buckle up folks we are in for a bumpy ride.

Cyclist
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Consumer Price Index - February 2011

Just in case anyone is interested;

The Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) increased
0.5 percent in February on a seasonally adjusted basis, the U.S.
Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today (3/13/11). Over the last 12 months, the "all items" index increased 2.1 percent before seasonal adjustment.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm

Davids mom
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Cyclist

I see we read some of the same 'resources' for information. I truly pray that leaders throughout the world are making decisions that will benefit mankind. It sounds 'la-la' - but in 2011-2012, we are truly dependent on one another in so many ways. I also would hope that the media would stop printing what the GOP is proposing until the GOP has a chance to really analyze their proposals. Do you feel that the increase in federal/state income due to the increase in employment is being figured into the numbers for predicting recovery?

Cyclist
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Davids mom

I suspect that we do. As for those GOP proposals and the upcoming budget deadline honestly, I'm not holding my breath. If we get something tangible then, I suspect in 10 years or less we'll be back in the same sad situation.

BTW, how is your mom?

Davids mom
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CYCLIST

Not holding my breath either - but I can hope. My mom is in first stage dementia; still humming and answering direct questions - and enjoying life at 100. Thanks for asking. She's having quite a life!

dawn69
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Prediction

I'll go on record with 9.5% ..... Just pulled that one out of my hat. What the hell do I know!

Davids mom
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OK - I'll play

3.7

Chris P. Bacon
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It's rather revealing...

I find it rather revealing the fact that two of the posters who routinely harangue everyone with their opinions on the economy are amongst the very few people in this thread who are unwilling to take a stand and go on record with a prediction.

Oh well, perhaps Fox News will give them an inflation prediction between now and the end of the year that they can triumphantly trumpet as their own. They're obviously incapable of forming a prediction when left to their own devices. Either that, or they lack the courage to stand behind their convictions. Or maybe both!

PTC Observer
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Or could be

that we simply have no interest in your silly proposition.

Chris P. Bacon
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And yet...

You're not interested, yet you've made more posts in this thread than just about anyone.

What does this tell us?

It would seem that Glibertarians such as yourself are equal parts wuss and attention whore.

PTC Observer
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I post

therefore, I am.

Much to your dismay.

T-Man
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I'm in

4.7%

Spyglass
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Watching paint drying is more interesting....

Let's do that.

Cyclist
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Hey Bacon,

Just to clarify, the CPI tally that you are using is coming from the "Consumer Price Index Summary" and not "Tables 1-7"?

Consumer Price Index

Observerofu
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Cyclist- not answered yet I noticed.

Makes a difference which you use doesn't it.

I guess as long as Bacon is not pinned down then he can claim the moral high ground. Fuel and Food is not tallied in the Summary, however, these two items account for the majority of the shift in inflation. Gas over $3.00 a gallon now and is projected to go higher according to the former CEO of Shell up to $5.00 a gallon by years end.

Cyclist
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2011 Inflation Prediction Challenge

Well, as typical, Bacon never did responded to my question. So, unless someone can find a better source I say we use the "official" source.

For the 12 months ending in November, the fully "burdened" CPI averaged 3.4%.

BTW, Bacon is still among us.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.toc.htm

S. Lindsey
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This one is closer

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

Real stats not "adjusted" to look better

NUK_1
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Inflation predictions

It was real simple then and it's real simple now: what is going to be reported as inflation by the government? All the hedging and total BS aside, it seems that a couple of non-participants want to keep whining and blathering about this and that as if when a Repub was Prez that the stats were also wrong but with Obama they are even "wronger."

You know, it was a simple little thing thrown out there from the gone-Bacon and shouldn't have required mental calisthenics over everything. You could either put up a number or STFU and ignore it. Get a life.

Ninja Guy
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Nuk Dishes Out Some Whup!

Get on 'em Nuk! We could have been predicting inflation based on anything, but Bacon's rules were to use BLS numbers! Anyway, what is any one of us going to do about inflation anyway? It's like complaining about the weather!

Also, my prescient blog about Chris Chris's rotundness has showed up in the Washington Post as a real article! I should get royalties!

Fat People DON'T Rule!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jan/4/will-americas-anti-fat-bi...

Can the Bengals stop the Texans? I'm taking Houston by 10!

S. Lindsey
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It's all the same NUK

but don't worry there is no spoon...err Inflation. Remember you said so.

Cyclist
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2011 Inflation Prediction Challenge

The fully "burdened" average CPI for the 12 months ending in December.............drum roll please............... 3.0%

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.toc.htm

AtHomeGym
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cy & CPI for 2011

Interesting--so wonder where the 3.6% increase in Social Security, Fed/Mil Retirements came from? Oh, also in VA Disability! So,you home from Texas? They treat you right?

Cyclist
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Hey Gym

It was an uneventful trip to San Marcos and back. The boss went with me this time. I introduced her to street tacos from Taco Cabana and she was hooked. No barbecue on this trip, just brisket Tex-Mex and, chili peppers, chips, beans and rice. Good eats!!!
.

PTC Observer
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Inflation Predictions

Dec. 16, 2010, 5:58 a.m. EST

Oil bull sees hyperinflation — and a coming China crunch

Oil has been twitching, but a long-time oil bull is positively convulsive.

By Peter Brimelow, MarketWatch

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Oil has been twitching, but a long-time oil bull is positively convulsive.

EDITED and REMOVED the remainder of this copied material. Posting copyrighted material in its entirety is a violation of this site's terms of service, not to mention a violation of the copyright law. "Fair use" exception lets you use a small portion (a few lines). The concept of copyright arises out of the basic concept of property ownership. I'm sure all on this thread want to support that basis of liberty itself. — Webmaster

Chris P. Bacon
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Please stop spamming this thread

Please stop spamming this thread. I made this thread for people to make predictions about inflation in 2011. Nobody cares about your mindless cut and paste.

You've already violated MarketWatch's terms of service by posting copyrighted articles in their entirety here, it's a good thing that glibertarians such as yourself are not bound by trivialities such as "copyright law". It'd be a pity, though, if Cal and company were made to pay for your boorish behavior.

PTC Observer
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Bacon - Note

The fact that you can link to Marketwatch indicates otherwise, note 3.2.2 terms of use. Now, if this is not a limited group I don't know what is.

Stop your whinning.

If Mr. Beverly asks that I stop this I certainly will.

Chris P. Bacon
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Try again
PTC Observer wrote:

The fact that you can link to Marketwatch indicates otherwise, note 3.2.2 terms of use. Now, if this is not a limited group I don't know what is.

Stop your whinning.

If Mr. Beverly asks that I stop this I certainly will.

Section 3.2.2 refers to limited reproduction distribution in non-electronic form.

Not too many people would consider the Citizen Online to be "non-electronic".

PTC Observer
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umm - Bacon

questionable I agree, but not intentional, so in the future I will link for the folks on this board that would like to have information on inflationary trends.

In the meantime, I don't know why you think I haven't given you an inflation figure. Go back and re-read my posts on this string, perhaps you can devine an answer....to your question.

And stop whinning.

NUK_1
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Zzzzzzzzzzzz

Seemed kind of simple and harmless at the start: "what is your prediction of what inflation will be in 2011?" If I need a long-winded dissertation from some other website that is not totally NOT relevant to the original post, I'll go find it myself.

NOOOOOO...this is a SERIOUS MATTER here! We must over-analyze to death the thinking and reasoning instead of just either answering the original post or not posting anything! OMG!

PTC Observer
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OK, Ok already

geeze!

NUK_1
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LOL

Merry Christmas to you and your family and it's all good.

PTC Observer
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To you too Nuk_1

and all on this board that make a little part of my life interesting....including Ninja and Bacon.

To all of you may you ALL have a Merry Christmas and Happy & Healthy New Year.

Doug
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Inflation

The Fed will not allow a rate of inflation above 10 percent. Paul Volcker had the guts to right the economy. The Obama nobodies will use monetary policy to artificially hold inflation down.

2011: 3% at the most

Georgia Patriot
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How's that?

By raising interest rates? The problem is the FED is creating false currency, prices (as expressed in dollars) must go up. What we have is the worst of both worlds, a slow economy and inflated currency(stagflation). -GP

Observerofu
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and after Stagflation comes

hyperinflation? As the Government continues their moves at creating currency to prop up this falling ceiling of our economy the tendency is to go to far.

Moves like this always lag behind the action. Sort of like if your steering had a 3 second delay. You would continuously over-correct until a crash becomes unavoidable.

An interesting video that blows Bernanke's exit strategy all to heck.

p.s. Paul Krugman hates this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZf3Qye0BtQ&feature=player_embedded

Georgia Patriot
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George Santayana Lives!

Best remembered by this phrase: "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it." And todays question is, what is a "Papeirmark"? -GP

PTC Observer
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Observerofu

Thanks for the link, but I would suggest that this subject is way over the heads of most on this board, or they simply do not want to hear it.

Simply put, they don't care.....but they will in the future.

Observerofu
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Austrian Economics vs Kennesyan Economics

Austrian Economics 101
http://mises.org/etexts/austrian.asp

Kennesyan Economics 101
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

PTO you are correct. Most only know what the Kennesyanist in power tell them.

Here is the important and main focus of a Kennesyan.
"Keynesian economics advocates a mixed economy—predominantly private sector, but with a large role of government and public sector"

Here is it's counterpoint:
Socialism:
" A theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole."

Who is in Control? The Government.

See the resemblance?

Georgia Patriot
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What is a "Progressive"?

All roads lead to the same place, government in control, making it their version of "fair". What we are headed to is a blend of Socialism and Communism thru the guise of Progressivism. -GP

PTC Observer
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Observerofu - Keynesians & neo-fascists

There is a fine line between Keynesian economics and fascism. The threshold is reached when those entrusted with the tools of production take their instructions from the state. Coercive government instructions come in the form of regulation and economic sanctions.

Keynes came along at the right time for FDR and his overreach into the private sector; this is the reason that Keynes became a celebrity of the progressive elite and was awarded a Nobel Prize in economics. As General Patton once remarked there was very little difference in the political parties in the US and the Nazi Party. He was roundly criticized for this remark but essentially he was correct from an economics standpoint, both were fascist economic policies.

Today, the tentacles of the government reach far and wide protecting those that support the political elite and punishing those that don’t. Neo-capitalists and unions fund political parties to protect their interests and keep their ill gotten gains through government largess and protection. One scratches the back of the other.

America is a great country, but it is being pulled down by entrenched political interests that covet money and power. The only enduring hope in stopping this corruption is the common sense of the American people and their love of their freedoms. We are at a turning point in this country, let’s hope and pray that we can take our country back from political corruption and the neo-capitalists. We need to return to the concepts of small non-intrusive representative government, individual freedom and free markets.

Davids mom
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Take our country back?
Quote:

We need to return to the concepts of small non-intrusive representative government, individual freedom and free markets.

. . .and stay away from the neo-conservative answer to our problems.

PTC Observer
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DM - Define

neo-conservative

Davids mom
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neo conservative/individualism
Quote:

noun
An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the perceived liberalism of the 1960s: “The neo-conservatism of the 1980s is a replay of the New Conservatism of the 1950s, which was itself a replay of the New Era philosophy of the 1920s” (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.)
adjective
designating or of an intellectual, political movement that evolved in the late 1970s in reaction to liberal and leftist thought, advocating individualism (senses & ), traditional moral standards, anti-Communist foreign policy, etc.

in·di·vid·u·al·ism (ĭnˌdə-vĭjˈo͞o-ə-lĭzˌəm)
noun

1.
a. Belief in the primary importance of the individual and in the virtues of self-reliance and personal independence.
b. Acts or an act based on this belief.
2.
a. A doctrine advocating freedom from government regulation in the pursuit of a person's economic goals.
b. A doctrine holding that the interests of the individual should take precedence over the interests of the state or social group.

It is the 'individualism' in the doctrine that I can't agree with. We have seen what 'freedom from government regulation in the pursuit of a person's economic goals' has done to our economy. We are, IMO, victims of the corruption and political games that you speak of - but I do not believe that the neo conservative ideology is the answer to our problems.

mudcat
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In other words - The Constitution

That definition seems fine to me. Follow the Constitution without all the wealth-envy, "fairness" and income redistibution that the socialists/progressives/liberals constantly push for. If you just left people alone as the founding fathers intended, we would have a stronger economy and there would be no need for welfare programs since the churches and individuals and the organized charaties would flush with cash and other assets. There would also be fewer people to care for since the single moms would be phased out by a new morality that says - stay in school, get a job, don't have sex until you are married and don't get married until you have finished school and have a job. How hard is that?

You did see the 2 most important words in that definition - self reliance - didn't you?

Davids mom
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Other words - Constitution/yes I include 'race'

Oh Mudcat - how nice it would be to live in your world. Everyone would have the skills and moral strength to be 'self-reliant'. But guess what, every American citizen does not have those most important skills all the time There is a male, white, working class in our country who all of the sudden realize that their gender, color, etc. does not automatically give them an advantage. Your talk of fairness is old - affirmative action is old. There are men and women who now can claim advantage because of skill and character . . . and many are surpassing those of old who had 'advantage'. There is still a higher percentage of 'black' minorities who are 'poor' - but that is changing, as those who take advantage of opportunities are moving forward. As for staying in school, get a job, don't have sex until you're married - there are neo-conservatives who need to show the rest of us 'how'. Some have not been good 'role models'. (Let's add fidelity to the marriage vows once they're taken.) Bush (the father) valiantly tried the volunteer route - it didn't work. Very few people are yelling 'fairness' today. The current interpretation of our Constitution - with the passage of the Civil Rights Act is making the playing field in these United States level. We now need to look at what is happening to the MAJORITY of our children (our future) with the dumbing down of education, the belittling of bi-lingualism and the desire to remove ourselves from the rest of the global community - but expect them to support our products. (Products? Industry? another subject) You may be surprised at this, but I worked for years to bring change to our welfare system when I witnessed how that system pushed the 'black' man out of his home so that his wife and children could eat. I saw first hand the results of the lack of 'fairness' in the policy of last hired first fired for many black men and women. Those days are in our past. When one loses a job and can't find another one to support his/her family for a YEAR. . .the skill of 'self reliance ' doesn't help much - and someone needs to step in in order for that person to continue to fulfill the role of consumer so that our economy doesn't fold. There is a group of Americans who are using the phrases wealth-envy, fairness, and income redistribution as a shield for their own insecurity because they are no longer viewed as 'superior'.

Quote:

There would also be fewer people to care for since the single moms would be phased out by a new morality

Now that is really straight out of la-la land. Where would these 'phased-out' women go? Abstinence? Contraceptives? You really believe that 'sex' will not still be exciting and attractive to our teenagers? You really believe that parents will be able to control urges that have been strong since the beginning of time? Bless you.

Quote:

stay in school, get a job, don't have sex until you are married and don't get married until you have finished school and have a job. How hard is that?

Evidently it is not as easy as some would imagine (Palins) I certainly don't disagree with the above quote - but it is not a realistic answer to the issues that we are facing. I believe that there are answers to be found - and one ideology does not have all of the answers. We need to listen to one another, use common sense and be willing to work together.

Joe Kawfi
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Income redistribution does not work

DM Stated- "When one loses a job and can't find another one to support his/her family for a YEAR. . .the skill of 'self reliance ' doesn't help much - and someone needs to step in in order for that person to continue to fulfill the role of consumer so that our economy doesn't fold."

It is not the role of government to rob Peter to pay Paul. That is pure income redistribution and it has been proven time and time again not to work.

You sound like a broken record .

Davids mom
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Economics Joe

No consumer - no business. Doesn't matter what 'theory' one uses. 'INCOME REDISTRIBUTION' is the broken record of the insecure and blind. What good is your business if no one has an income to purchase your product?

Georgia Patriot
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Constitutional Individualism

The problem does not come from "freedom from government regulation in the pursuit of a person's economic goals", the problem arises when government intervenes and does not allow poor business practices to fail, or when government protects the corrupt. Of course there should be laws against corruption, in both the private and public sector. The meddling game that government plays is largely the problem with capitalism, they screw with it and then stand back and point fingers, stating for all the people to see, "look, Capitalism is a Failure!", I contend, Government is the Failure!. We don't need a "Govenment run Collective" we need the light of truth shinning brightly on the problem and government out the way which will allow Freedom and Individualism to Work! -GP

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